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Good Day ALL!

So here goes round two, a re-vamped 2K list I'm throwing together in anticipation of the new DA codex. I wanna go or a large base of troops, with 15 terminators, and my bikes all modeled as low-flying jet-bikes, for a crusade-era feel!

Please let me know what you think, any comments/criticism is welcome and appreciated!

DEATHWING

Belial (TH/SS) and friends,
5 Terminators: sgt- TH/SS/CML, apothecary- TH/SS, Standard: TH/SS, 2X LC's
5 Terminators: sgt- TH/SS CML, 2X SB/CF, 2X LC's
5 Terminators: sgt- TH/SS CML, 2X SB/CF, 2X LC's

Dreadnought: venerable, PC/ML
Dreadnought: venerable, PC/ML

RAVENWING

Sammael, on that sweetass jetbike thing.

RW Bikes: Sgt- PF, 2X Flamer, 1X MM attack bike
RW Bikes: Sgt- PF, 2X Flamer, 1X MM attack bike

Landspeeder: Typhoon, HB
Landspeeder: Typhoon, HB
Landspeeder: Typhoon, HB

That comes out to exactly 2K, and I finally think I'm satisfied with this setup.

We're talking like 8 missile shots available on turn 1. I'm hoping to wreck pretty much all of my opponent's transports well before they make it to midfield. Then they have to footslog through a shitstorm of the aforementioned missiles, and eventually plasma and heavy bolters as well. Hopefully they'll be whittled down to nothing by the time they reach my termi-wall. Which should utterly break them. Sammael and his jetbike buddies go where they're needed. I can remain static all game, like a gunline, or I can steamroll the field. Dealer's choice.

All in all, I feel like this is a pretty solid assortment of units, with enough synergy to be a salty "take all-comers list".
Please let me know how you like it!

enjoy

It looks interesting and reasonably competitive however its 40 pts over by my calculation.
3 man bike squad die easily. They are high toughness yes but they can be insta gibbed by many armies.
It is proabbly better to equip them with a single melta than 2 flamers because you increase anti tank ability and wound allocation.

Other more general notes.

1. I am a fan of TH/SS for obvious reason you may want to include these in standard squads over LC's. (If you see a lot of horde armies you may want to keep your current configuration.)
2.Sammael is fething awesome love that your actually using him.
3.Move the banner to a Lightning claw terminator this will allow you to do serious wound allocation shenanigans at least for 2 weeks.

Then again take this all with a salt mine as 6th may change everything i just said.

It looks good. My one question is the two venerable dreads.
That is a lot of points for 2 S9 and 2 S8 shots. I would look at adding another termie squad or bike squad. (If you can eke it out, go for both.)

Another CML is 2 8S shots plus those termies are harder to kill than the dreads as well as a scoring unit.

I would have a unit with 6 bikes and a apothecary, as they are just hard to kill.
It seems reasonable enough report back on how it does.

Why are you useing Sammeal on the Bike? He is far better in the Speeder. IMHO. On the bike he can be singled out easier as he is not a IC.

Join the bikes together.

Not sure why you have 2 chainfists in each squad. I don't use a single chainfist and have not needed it. Would drop them and take a LC and TH/SS.

I don't think you really need ven on the dreads. I am also not a fan of the ML on them as well. Both weapons really target different units. Maybe swap for a Flamer and keep the DCCW.

This is just my opinion of course. Good Luck!

Thanks for all the feedback everyone!

I played around with the list a bit last night, taking the advice into consideration, and came up with something a little more like this:
To make it easier, I'll enter details about changes in RED.

Belial (TH/SS) and friends,
5 Terminators: sgt- TH/SS/CML, apothecary- TH/SS, Standard: LC, 2X LC's
5 Terminators: sgt- TH/SS CML, 2X TH/SS, 2X LC's
5 Terminators: sgt- TH/SS CML, 2X TH/SS, 2X LC's
The gear on these guys was reworked, saved 20 pts on CF's that I was iffy on in the first place

Dreadnought: PC/ML
Dreadnought: PC/ML
Dropped venerable 2X here, saved 40 pts

RAVENWING
Sammael, on that sweetass jetbike thing.
He's gotta be on the bike, I'm allowing myself a rule-of-cool executive decision here. That thing is SWEETASS!

RW Bikes (maxed out to full strength) : Sgt- PF, Apothecary, 2X Flamer, 1X MM attack bike
Maxed out to full strength, added apothecary. I'll keep the flamers, as I like the duality of flamers/melta

RW Bikes: 1X MM attack bike
This is basically a suicide squad. Rather than doing my usual and taking my own deathstar to counter my opponents deathstar (YAWN) I'm just going to try and nuke theirs before it makes it to midfield lol

Landspeeder: Typhoon, HB
Landspeeder: Typhoon, HB
Landspeeder: Typhoon, HB

So, Belial and friends (the 1st terminator squad) will inch their way down the field in the wake of destruction that the larger/stronger 1st bike squad creates.
The second bike squad will intercept threats until death.
The two other terminator squads will move up either flank, or together up a single flank, each escorted by a dreadnought throwing plasma and missiles
All the while the typhoons dodge around and throw missiles and HB fire.

I think I was able to bring a bit of everybody's advice, which makes me feel that I've incorporated some really great things in here. Or I screwed it lol. Thought?
Thanks again to all who replied!

I am not a fan of bikes with flamers or Meltas for that matter. You have to get to close to use them and then get assaulted. IMHO that is a bad place for bikes. They really don't do much inCC and they are fearless which means they are going to be taking more saves then needed. I personally like plasmas couple with the Apoth, mean they will savea gaisnt the over heats that might happen.

How are you taking the single AB? He can only be purchased with the Bike squad. On the AB is also separate on the field. You purchase it as a single unit but it works independently from then on. Seems like you have some extra points now.

I like MM on the speeders as well. Its free and when you lose the missles you still have some AT with them. It has just worked for me thats all.

Still not sure about Sammael on bike. Just donesn't really seem to good of an idea to me. But hey its your army.

Just to help you out, this is what I do for my army. Same kinda feel as what you are lookiong for. Just a different take. Please take this how you see fit. Just thought I would share it with you.

Belial: LC's
Sammeal: Speeder

Dread: Plasma Cannon
Dread: Plasma Cannon

Terms:
Apoth: LC's
Banner: LC's
Sgt: TH/SS
LC's
LC's, CML

Terms: (Squads x2)
Sgt: TH/SS
LC's x2
LC's, CML
TH/SS

Bikes: x6
Sgt:
Apoth
2x Plasmaguns

Speeder: Typhoon, MM
Speeder: Typhoon, MM

Vindicator: Dozer
Vindicator: Dozer

Anyways I hope this helps.

What types of armies are you playing against?

Initiative really plays a role. For me taking LCs does nothing but hurt me because I am striking last anyways (I play Eldar, GK on a regular basis) If you aren't striking first or have to deal with alot of heavy weapons having more TH/SS is gonna serve you better for surviving PWs and low AP weapons.

I played against an eldar list with a crap load of lances and somehow ended the game with only a single wound on Belial and that was due to a lucky or unlucky dire avenger shot. I still have not found a real use for LCs in my army. Again this may differ for you because of the armies you are playing.

This being dualwing I have to agree with balsak on the plasma. I too used to run Meltas until he convinced me to try plasma it really does work wonders. The speed of the bikes allows you to set up the bikes for shots on rear armor.

Multi-Meltas would serve you better with all the mech in the game unless you are playing something hordish then the HBs might work. Maybe change one of them to a MM just to give another tank popping shot.

Also I do not know if your gaming group allows anything from forgeworld but my friends and I have agreed that as long as it is fitting and a slight variation of something already in the dex then it is accepted. That being said Mortis Dreadnoughts are your friend. They are less points then the current dread and have the ability to take Dual ML, LC, Autocannons, HBs all twin linked.... minus the ML. They really work wonders for long ranged support. Just a possibility.

Balsak knows his stuff though he has helped me quite a bit so yea hopefully I said at least 1 thing helpful in all of that rant.

Hey thanks. I appretiate that. I just try to make simple list that work without being overly competitive.

Everything you said makes sense for sure. Especially the TH/SS v LC"s in the army. I can see you point with that. I Play pretty much everything under the sun so I like a mix and does seem to work better for me.

You have to figure out the right mix for you and where you live and what you play of course. This is a perfect example of two different gaming groups and how it changes our build ever so slightly.

I am hoping we get Mortis Dreads in the next codex. But time will tell if we do.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:
How are you taking the single AB? He can only be purchased with the Bike squad. On the AB is also separate on the field. You purchase it as a single unit but it works independently from then on. Seems like you have some extra points now.

Sorry, that was poor list-listing on my part. It is a barebones bike squad + an AB.. I plan to wait for the enemy to launch their deathstar unit. Hopefully I zoom the bike in there, drop that MM on the tank or whatever it may be (probably a LR). After that I throw the squad into their teeth to get chewed up for a turn or two, while I move other units to counter.

-As far as the TH/SS v LC goes... I'll just magnetize and swap what I need, when I need, see what flavor suits me best.
-For the bikes... I'll just magnetize the flamer/melta/plasma arms so I can swap and try all variations. But I think you're right on the plasmas. Keeping em out of melee range is wise. Very wise.
-I'll magnetize the speeders as well. My reason for going HB though was to keep them at range. I find the typhoon/MM setup to be sound in that both weapons can specifically target armor, but I think the ranges are so contradictory that it doesnt seem compatible. Plus with more and more th/ss added in with each iteration of this list, I find myself worrying more and more about dakka.

The biggest change from my list to yours seems to be the nerfing of a LS and a DW squad to add in a couple of vindicators. My original list (before I revamped and posted) looked something like this. My only problem with that is that it leaves me pretty much sending 2 lone vindicators up the field. Even together, I imagined them both getting nuked early on as it'd likely be the biggest perceived threat rolling at the enemy. Despite the real threat of the 2 typhoon ML's, 2 CML's and dreadnought 2 ML's, as the list stood at the time.

I just play with friends, but we are all pretty competitive. Right now its Newcrons, CSM, IG,and eventually DE. So a pretty decent mix, which is why it'll pay to do a lot of magnetizing-- rest assured the dreads will not be excluded in that aspect. I can definately see the logic in all of the recommendations offered, and its given me a good range of different things to try out, that I otherwise wouldnt have. So thanks to you guys for all the kind words! I'll give it a go as soon as we all get down together!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dude mortis dreadnoughts and Plasma Cannon Attack Bikes would be freaking sweet. I think a PC attack bike would be pretty scary. If I'm not mistaken that'd be about the quickest way to get a plasma cannon from A to B (excluding drop pod deployments). *Sighs*

Sure no problem always glad to help. DA's are probably one of my Favorite armies, besdies Orks of course. So I like to help.

The way I use the speeders is I move them 12" all the time, so can only fire one weapon anyways. I mostly stay at range and fire the missles. If they get destroyed and there are still vehicles out there I try to get to them as fast as possible. It helps them still be a tank hunting unit. So staying at range really isn't and issue for me. But I can see having it in case to deal with infantry and what not.

Well I use both Vindies in cohesion along with the dreads and speeders. I don't teleport my Terms to often as I ha ve found that it really makes them easier to be killed by template weapons.

I just played a game tonight with my list. It was against a double lash tzeentch list. He ended up quiting in my turn 3 when he had nohting but a squad of zerkers in a immobilized rhino. I lost 5 terms as well as Belial. Forgot about no FNP on AP2. Duh! Was thinking it didn't double T so I am good. lol Oh well he is there for terms as troops anyways. I killed almost all his AT weapons first turn so he had nothing to deal with any kind of army I had. Oblits were dead along with a chosen squad with plasmas and a missle. It was not a good game for him for sure.

Anyway good luck with the list, I think it is a very fun army to play.