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slightly different style of list, looking for feedback. i know a lot will change when 6e drops, but still working on lists ...

HQ:
Parasite of Mortrex

ELITE:
Deathleaper
Doom of Malantai in Mycectic Spore
2x Zoanthrope in Mycetic Spore

TROOP:
10x Genestealer
9x Genestealer
10x Hormagaunt w/Toxin Sacs
10x Hormagaunt w/Toxin Sacs

HVY:
Trygon Prime
Trygon Prime

comes to 1496 pts.

ALTERNATELY, can drop one trygon prime, add mawloc and mycetic spores for the hormagaunts. that would come to 1492pts.

Hmmm, looks like this list would be cracking against infantry, but may struggle with vehicles at range. You only have the Zoanthropes and Doom to blast vehicles. Also no spores for the Hormies, they will die when it lands.

mercer wrote:Hmmm, looks like this list would be cracking against infantry, but may struggle with vehicles at range. You only have the Zoanthropes and Doom to blast vehicles. Also no spores for the Hormies, they will die when it lands.

Parasite is St6 A4 Jump Infantry with rending ... and if no spores for the hormies, would you keep them in reserve or place in cover? everything can deepstrike or outflank with the exception of the hormies ...

In cover, If they come in reserves, they will be walking on the back edge = No way they will get to the fight on time.

Unless there is an objective on your side that you left unattended. A squad of Hormaguants could come in reserves to take that obj and sit on it.

I've never looked into the Parasite, so I won't comment.
But a Tyrant with HC, will let one of those hormaguant squads outflank! and give you better reserve rolls.

Spores for any units with no shooting attack is a total no-no. They'll just get shot to bits before they get to assault anything. If you want spores and are spending up to 8 points on a hormogaunt then maybe look at 10 points for a devourer gant. Now they can work from spores.

If trygons are coming in by D/S I'm not sure I'd bother with the prime upgrade. Spend the points on toxin sacs for the stealers instead and AG for the trygons themselves.

Parasite is good in assault, but suffers like warriors from only being T4 with multi-wounds. Needs a large pack of gargoyles to attach himself to in order to take the first 20 shots aimed at him ... Points costs for a unit with the stats of a wraith but without the invul save makes me cry a little inside ...

Rather than deathleaper I'd want a second brood of zoanthropes.

this is a rough point level to do null deploy.

if genestealers outflank do they still have the option of coming in through the trygon tunnel? (like dark eldar webways)

I agree there's not enough AV, but I'm not sure there's an easy way to fix that.

Consider adding more genestealers or gaunts by removing the doom or deathleaper.

the numerical disadvantage associated with units trickling on to the board is compounded when those units are small.

mawloc is way overpriced. don't do it.

agreed, Mawloc is overpriced

The Deathleaper though, is essential to shutting down enemy psychics and psychic hoods (a zoanthropes worst enemy)

beltenebros wrote:

mercer wrote:Hmmm, looks like this list would be cracking against infantry, but may struggle with vehicles at range. You only have the Zoanthropes and Doom to blast vehicles. Also no spores for the Hormies, they will die when it lands.

Parasite is St6 A4 Jump Infantry with rending ... and if no spores for the hormies, would you keep them in reserve or place in cover? everything can deepstrike or outflank with the exception of the hormies ...

Indeed, but currently assault against vehicles sucks, plus Parasite cannot deal wiht vehicles at range.

jcress410 wrote:this is a rough point level to do null deploy.

1500 is usually the largest game we get to play, and i like the null deployment lists/models, so i thought i'd give it a go!

jcress410 wrote:if genestealers outflank do they still have the option of coming in through the trygon tunnel?

dex says 'units arriving from reserve', so i assume they still can. i'd have to check FAQ unless someone knows off the top of their head ...

jcress410 wrote:Consider adding more genestealers or gaunts by removing the doom or deathleaper.

need deathleaper to reduce ld of psykers. i think i'll lose the doom and put more zoanthorpes in to up AT.

jcress410 wrote:mawloc is way overpriced. don't do it.

i know, i know ... i'd really like to use him though lol!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Moronic Nonsense wrote:I've never looked into the Parasite, so I won't comment. But a Tyrant with HC, will let one of those hormaguant squads outflank! and give you better reserve rolls.

I can get rid of the Parasite, add Flyrant with HC, but I'd have to lose a squad of hormies. List would look like this:

HQ:
Tyrant w/Wings, Hive Commander

ELITE:
2x Zoanthropes w/Mycetic Spore
2x Zoanthropes w/Mycetic Spore
Deathleaper

TROOPS:
10x Genestealer
10x Genestealer
10x Hormagaunts w/Toxin Sacs

HVY:
Trygon w/Adrenal Glands
Trygon w/Adrenal Glands

comes to 1495pts. I think I like this list better, but I'd like to try with Parasite ...

I like that list. I'm rooting for you. I wish wacky stuff like null deploy was more competitive. All drop pods would be a fun list too.
There are so many MSU lists (at least in my local meta) that anything that isn't has to be super anti-MSU to be competitive.

jcress410 wrote:I like that list. I'm rooting for you.

cheers! i always enjoy playing odd lists and thoroughly enjoy bringing stuff to the table you rarely see. i find often that people expect to see certain things in an army and i frequently catch them unprepared ...

If you're going to bring a troop squad in from the board edge to objective camp then make them termagaunts. That way if they fall to their instinctive behaviour then they will just sit and shoot anything in range. The hormagants will run off and get killed.

I just can't get deathleaper to earn his points. If, like, ymgarls, he can assault the turn he arrives then great, but as it stands he needs to remain out of combat to receive a turn of shooting and multi-wound T4 models with a 5+ armour save just don't tend to last. You can always hid him, but then your spending 140 points and using an elite slot on what might only be -1 Ld to one psyker. SITW is far more numerous and puts the psyker at 50/50 anyway.

ruminator wrote:I just can't get deathleaper to earn his points.

well i've not played him yet so we'll see how it goes, but i like the ability to pop up anywhere on the table (more than 1" away from enemy), rending shooting and cc attacks on 5+, to disappear back in to reserve, and to add +1 to reserve rolls when on table and place a deep striking unit within 6" of him. he's also got a goodie bag of trickery and allows the army to be very mobile.

of course, on paper and on the battlefield are completely different ...

Deathleaper is invincible until the last turn... so use him for objective contesting.
He comes in from reserves, place him in terrain. End of his movement phase - no enemy with 1", remove him. Repeat until turn 5, place him in terrain within contesting range of an objective. Hope game ends. If not, he's still relatively sturdy.

rigeld2 wrote:Deathleaper is invincible until the last turn... so use him for objective contesting.
He comes in from reserves, place him in terrain. End of his movement phase - no enemy with 1", remove him. Repeat until turn 5, place him in terrain within contesting range of an objective. Hope game ends. If not, he's still relatively sturdy.

Just seems such a massive waste of a WS9 model ...

Or use the deathleaper as a distraction guy. If you place him by some devastators, while some other bugs are charging forwards. They will have a choice to make. Shoot the Deathleaper who will kill me in assault (but I might not be able to see him thanks to his special stealth). Or do I shoot at the charging bugs in front of me? who will reach my lines next turn and wreck face.

Helvost wrote:If you're going to bring a troop squad in from the board edge to objective camp then make them termagaunts. That way if they fall to their instinctive behaviour then they will just sit and shoot anything in range. The hormagants will run off and get killed.

definitely.

i've updated the list with everyones MUCH APPRECIATED advice and have come up with the following:

HQ:
Parasite of Mortrex

ELITE:
Deathleaper
2x Zoanthrope in Mycetic Spore
2x Zoanthrope in Mycetic Spore

TROOP:
10 Genestealer
10 Genestealer
10 Hormagaunts w/Toxin Sacs
10 Termagants w/Devourer

HVY:
Trygon w/Adrenal Glands
Trygon w/Adrenal Glands

Comes to exactly 1500pts.

This way, the hormagaunts will (hopefully) come in through Trygon tunnel. If termagants come early they can come from table edge and sit on objective, otherwise they can come through tunnel or close to deathleaper, depending on the game. Everything can start of table and outflank or deepstrike!

Going to play this list next week vs. DE and SW. Will let everyone know how it goes! Of course, updates after 6e drops are likely ...

good luck!
Don't let those DE poisen weapons get to your MCs

Moronic Nonsense wrote:Or use the deathleaper as a distraction guy. If you place him by some devastators, while some other bugs are charging forwards. They will have a choice to make. Shoot the Deathleaper who will kill me in assault (but I might not be able to see him thanks to his special stealth). Or do I shoot at the charging bugs in front of me? who will reach my lines next turn and wreck face.

that's how i thought of using him. can pop up and distract. can disappear and reappear anywhere on the table. can contest objectives last turn. plus "it's after me", "what was that", "where is it", and "where'd it go".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Moronic Nonsense wrote:good luck!
Don't let those DE poisen weapons get to your MCs

thanks! that's the plan! will be an interesting game for sure!

Turn one you have nothing on the board, you still have that evil gleam in your eye. That gleam you got when you went second and after you deployed you said "I'm done".

Your opponent has deftly maneuvered into defensive positions with which to hold off your swarm of evil alien bugs, but you know nothing can stop you now. Nothing you will be all over him like a fat kid on candy, but then you see that he had blocked off some main fire lanes, and pieces of cover. you start to realize you will need many of your units. and the death leaper does not give reserves rolls turn one. Things are tense in your mind you playfully mess with your opponent "are you sure you want to go there" "eh whatever its your funeral" "I wouldn't do that if I was a space marine". Inside you just can't wait for turn two, you just want him to stop moving into areas that deny you both the turn one charge and cover. now the time has come you pick out that one die, you know the one, and start to roll for reserves

You will be a slave to reserve rolls I'm afraid. You can't rely on the deathleapers +1 to impact as if he doesn't arrive until T3 it makes no difference.

Trygon tunnel for the same reason. If gants/gaunts come in the same turn/earlier than the trygon they can't use it. Also you can't assault when coming out of the tunnel so you wouldn't want to use hormogaunts for that anyway. For this reason I'd use more genestealers as at least they can outflank.

ruminator wrote:You will be a slave to reserve rolls I'm afraid. You can't rely on the deathleapers +1 to impact as if he doesn't arrive until T3 it makes no difference.

Trygon tunnel for the same reason. If gants/gaunts come in the same turn/earlier than the trygon they can't use it. Also you can't assault when coming out of the tunnel so you wouldn't want to use hormogaunts for that anyway. For this reason I'd use more genestealers as at least they can outflank.

very true. didn't realize no assault out of tunnel. i'll probably drop the hormies for termies that can shoot right out of tunnel. i'll look into refining the list to include tyrant as hq to boost reserve rolls immediately, then may include hormies as outflankers ... thanks for the tips/advice! i'll be trying out some form of this list next week. then revise at end of the month lol ...

ok. My last post was supposed to be funny (I am a futurama fan)

For real this time,


Hive Tyrant w/ Hive Commander 195

Hiveguard x 3 150

Deathleaper 105 (i think)

Zoes In a pod 160


Troops

Genestealers x 10 140
Genestealers x 10 140

Hormogaunts x 20 120
Hormogaunts x 15 120


Trygon 200
Trygon 200


1500 exactally


So you start the Hive tyrant on the board as well as the hive guard.

you hide the tyrant turn one and you can hide the hive guard and still bring their weapons to bear on things that move into there threat range.

you can outflank that huge group of Hormogaunts with Hive Commander. They have bounding leap and move through cover so they should be able to charge something if not definitively present a threat. but if you gaunts do not come in before the trygons then you can still have them subterranean assault. I took off Adrenal Glands cause you have to trust your trygons, it is enough without s7 or i5. more often than not you are charging into cover and do not have grenades. Honest I would drop the zoes. I have two I love them to death but they just can't seem to do it for me. I would rather mess up AV14 with a trygon. Also both of these lists are short on synapse. If you drop the zoes you can make both your trygons prime and give them regeneration. this give them a 12 shot shooting attack when they show up (as they can not charge), but a combined 24 s 5 shots!!!! regeneration on trygons is awesome. you get one die for each missing wound every turn! I had a trygon take 11 wounds one game over 6 turns!

Thrawn2600 wrote:ok. My last post was supposed to be funny (I am a futurama fan)

lol, i did enjoy your last post. and it's totally true.

i didn't bring guard because i don't have the models right now. i do have 4 zoes so that was the alternative. the deathleaper is 140pts :( , not 105.

but i really think i should bring the tyrant w/hive commander, i just like the idea of the parasite.

also, termagants, as someone pointed out above, if they fail synapse they sit in cover and shoot at closest enemy, so if they're on an objective that's a-ok. most everything else doesn't need synapse ...

beltenebros wrote:

Thrawn2600 wrote:ok. My last post was supposed to be funny (I am a futurama fan)

lol, i did enjoy your last post. and it's totally true.

i didn't bring guard because i don't have the models right now. i do have 4 zoes so that was the alternative. the deathleaper is 140pts :( , not 105.

but i really think i should bring the tyrant w/hive commander, i just like the idea of the parasite.

also, termagants, as someone pointed out above, if they fail synapse they sit in cover and shoot at closest enemy, so if they're on an objective that's a-ok. most everything else doesn't need synapse ...

well actually if they are not in cover they give up shooting to run towards it.

you also want synapse because everything has bad leadership except genestealers. Just use warriors as hive guard. they are expensive. just tell you opponent that a unit of 3 is 75 bucks. they will understand.

also drop the deathleaper for 140 points. I bet if you do you can work the parasite into this list. including the hive tyrant.

Thrawn2600 wrote:[
well actually if they are not in cover they give up shooting to run towards it.

you also want synapse because everything has bad leadership except genestealers. Just use warriors as hive guard. they are expensive. just tell you opponent that a unit of 3 is 75 bucks. they will understand.

also drop the deathleaper for 140 points. I bet if you do you can work the parasite into this list. including the hive tyrant.

i've built several versions of this list using battlescribe (love it,btw) and i'll be testing some out next week. i'll tweak as necessary, but i also like the idea of the deathleaper. we'll see if he's worth the points. he also helps T3 reserves coming in ...

hopefully my slinky won't explode ...

Thrawn2600 wrote:well actually if they are not in cover they give up shooting to run towards it.

Not true.

They must move towards cover.
In the shooting phase they fire at the nearest target. If they can't see anyone in range, they must run towards terrain.

rigeld2 wrote:

Thrawn2600 wrote:well actually if they are not in cover they give up shooting to run towards it.

Not true.

They must move towards cover.
In the shooting phase they fire at the nearest target. If they can't see anyone in range, they must run towards terrain.

Incorrect. In the movement phase they are stationary. in the shooting phase they must RUN to cover. if they are already in cover they must fire at the closest target.

Thrawn2600 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Thrawn2600 wrote:well actually if they are not in cover they give up shooting to run towards it.

Not true.

They must move towards cover.
In the shooting phase they fire at the nearest target. If they can't see anyone in range, they must run towards terrain.

Incorrect. In the movement phase they are stationary. in the shooting phase they must RUN to cover. if they are already in cover they must fire at the closest target.

We're both wrong.
Page 33 Nid codex. They don't move in the movement phase, but must shoot in the shooting phase, and must run to cover if they cannot shoot.