Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I want to make these guys work really bad but their bloodgreed rule just seems to make them worthless, after the first charge they seem to be out of position for the rest the game.

Here is what I have been running of late.

Doombull
Heavy
Shield
Stonecrush
Ramhorn
Ironcurse

Gorebull BSB
Heavy
Shield
Gnarled Hide
SoD

Gorebull
Berserk Sword
Heavy
Shield
Dragon Helm

3 man mino squad with GW's in second rank Muse and Standard.

So whatever they hit it doesn't seem to mater gets crushed. My front rank is all characters with 3+, 2+, 3+ and T5. They rock faces with their impact + stomp hits on the charge. Then 9 GW attacks at S7 from the supporting rank. The problem is, whatever I hit I blow up. Then it flees out of range easily because of blood greed and I have to pursue my D6 and I end up wasting another entire turn reforming or I have to charge the fleers which almost always rally. I want to make this work but I am about to give up. Bloodgreed sounds cool till you realize it pretty much turns them into a directed missile with no real ability to redirect.

Tactics or Build help is appreciated.

Remember that the Minobus represents about 1000pts to the opponent. It's expensive enough that the opponent is likely going to have to engage it if he wants enough VP to score the win.
If he ignores it, he won't get much more than a minor victory even if he wipes the rest of the table clean. Assuming you get some VP yourself from Razor-Assassinations and a couple of easy Minobus-combats, the opponent will need to kill it if he wants a win.

Your loadouts are a bit odd, the best load outs I've seen from personal use and web lists are

Doombull
Sword of Swift Slaying
Gnarled Hide
Heavy Armour
Shield
Ramhorn Helm
Dawnstone
(And if you have the points the other tricksters shard)

Gorebull BSB
Great Weapon
Armour of Destiny

Gorebull
Great Weapon
Armour of Silvered Steel

If points allow i'd get a mini champ with gold sigil sword to strike before your opponent, the minobus isn't the most important thing in your list though. What else are you carrying? A ridiculous amount of attention (every damaging spell, every crossbow bolt, every cannon etc) will be aimed at your mino bus, allowing your big blocks of gor, chariots, wizards, monsters to go about the opponents weak underbelly relatively unmolested.

Just to finish up I'd consider three minos a little light as as soon as (three uses of as in four words) one is killed your unit can't break ranks, I run 5 with champ and musician giving gold sigil sword ot champ

yes i think that unit as described is around 996 points in a 2500 point game.

Right now I only have 6 mino models and I don't want to buy more if they are going to be collecting dust. My load out doesn't seem to be the issue they kill everything. The berserk sword prevents them from losing their frenzy bonus attacks so often by the end of a game my front rank has 9-8-8 attacks or more.

the rest of my army is Lvl4 great brey, horde of gors, heard stone and 2 level 1 breys, razorgors, and ungor raiders. Sometimes I will find points for a ghorgon.

Also not losing the frenzy bonus helps some with side defense. I have a realatively small side being only 2 ranks and sustain and even sometimes win against a side charge, which of late has been happening a lot because of the slow blood greed mandatory overrun, pursue. My opponets seem wise to what will happen and will position a unit to side charge after initial break.

Maybe I am expecting to much from them and they are doing exactly what they are supposed to.

Typically you pair a chariot with the bus. The chariot hits the corner, the minos blow up the other unit, then the chariot runs the other unit down with swiftstride. That way you don't need to keep chasing them when they get away.

Razorgors will work for that right? I have been using my razorgors as warmachine/character hunters but that is a good idea, maybe i pull some ungor raiders and grab warhounds or something.

tgf wrote:Razorgors will work for that right? I have been using my razorgors as warmachine/character hunters but that is a good idea, maybe i pull some ungor raiders and grab warhounds or something.

Anything with swiftstride

Complaining your unit smashes too much face, uggggg First World Problems.

Hargus56 wrote:Complaining your unit smashes too much face, uggggg First World Problems.

I lol'd

In all seriousness I have never run a champ because I assumed the rules of running a champ in a 3 wide formation would force one of my characters to the second rank where he could not attack or the champ would be in the second rank where he could not attack. I think the champ forces the character to the back.

I absolutely disagree with what Mozzamanx said. I don't really think this will ever do what you expect it too, and it would be too easy to just ignore and redirect, I could just feed it 30-50 point redirecters for 3 turns while my entire army fights the 1500 points that's left and when that's done I can turn everything against the 1000 point bus. And you can't really say that's just theory, that's how redirecting units work and it's what they are for. Simply put Minotaurs simply aren't tough enough to be in a bus. Little to no armor and only above average toughness doesn't make for a very good deathstar, more like a meat wad. If I were you I'd run a naked unit of six minotaurs, not impossible for an opponent to handle but it has that perfect balance of being threatening enough to force your opponent to deal with them while not being crazy expensive.

Praetorian, in the beastmen army I found that often times because our primary redirectors are Razorgors (fairly bad ass models). I can intercept enemy redirectors and outright kill them before they can interrupt my plan. I think beastmen probably have the second best redirector in the game, the only one better I can think of is the Great Eagle.

Mozzamanx wrote:Remember that the Minobus represents about 1000pts to the opponent. It's expensive enough that the opponent is likely going to have to engage it if he wants enough VP to score the win.
If he ignores it, he won't get much more than a minor victory even if he wipes the rest of the table clean. Assuming you get some VP yourself from Razor-Assassinations and a couple of easy Minobus-combats, the opponent will need to kill it if he wants a win.

I see showing someone the limitations of deathstar tactics as a win in and of itself.

If you put most of your points and all your combat power into one unit, especially if it has frenzy, I'll lead it around by the nose the whole game. It will only engage the units of mine that I want it to engage, when I want to engage them, where I want to engage them. And if I've done it right, I've bled it with magic and missile fire so that my combo-charge into its rear and flanks will cause IT to break. If I haven't weakened it enough... I can keep baiting it around the whole game and accept that minor victory. Either way it's a win.

Deathstar lists loose because they cannot effectively maneuver against multiple units. Sure, they'll smash whatever they hit. A smart player will feed it cheap units to delay it and preserve his expensive stuff by keeping it out of reach. One dimensional threats can be countered in one dimesion as well, leaving the rest of a balanced army intact.

Yeah, sure razorgors are really good redirecters and they can handle redirecters in combat but fact that minotaurs cannot overrun and only go d6 inches means that tactically they cannot deal with redirecters. When the minobus is close you can just send in a unit of redirecters within a couple of inches and the unit will go nowhere for a whole turn. Sure razorgors will be able to charge your unit but by then they've done their duty.

This is pretty much a summary of the problem with Bloodgreed. It's not that I want to make a deathstar so much as I want to make the mino's work because I like the models.

The only real way to run a Minobus IMO is to put it smack center of your lines, flanked by Gor units (hopefully on both sides). That way your opponent cannot effectively re-direct them and you get them into the meat and potatoes of the enemy army. Downside to this is you don't get to ramp them up with easy wins prior to hitting the hard stuff.

I learned a lesson this weekend. I need to get a crown of command in my minobus somehow I finally lost a combat where i was rear and side charged and had bad to hit rolls.

Tip: perma-frenzy sword means you always keep your attacks. Cheaper than the crown.

yes sir, I have that sword on my Gorebull, I mean I actually lost a combat and broke to get run down. Sadly ld 9 when you lose by 2 is quite dangerous. Minos are not exceptionally tough so when they get at my side or rear and can attack the great weapon guys will bad saves the resolution gets run up. Crown of command would just make me stubborn so I don't break and lose 750 points in characters lol. I just want to make minos work decent so I can include them more often. Right now my beastmen army is a bit repetitive.

Huge block of gors in horde
Big block of bestigors
Great Brey
a few lil Breys
Beastlord for ld10 bubble
203 BSB
2-3 squads of ungor raiders
3 razorgors
2 small squads of warhounds.

The rest of my points I play with different units like Ghorgons, minos, centigors, whatever I have laying around. I would like to bring something very different to the table. As it stands the Horde of Gor's do all the heavy lifting yet cost less than 1/4 my play points, and I don't want to run two hordes of like 120 gors total, that seems a bit ridiculous.

Another interesting note is I may have been playing my mino's illegally, having three characters in the front rank and making the muse and standard go to the second rank. I need to do more research on this. Maybe with make way I am not breaking the rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If I understand how all the rules work together it would work like this.

M-Musician
S-Standard
G-Gorebull
D-Doombull
R-rank and file

I would have to march around like so.

M S G(BSB)
D G R

When I charged or was charged make way would let me do this.

D G G(BSB)
M S R

If I charged because make way happens before Impact hits I would get 3D3 impact hits instead of D3+2.

I

There are loads of different lists you can bring to the table, shard 206 lists and minobus lists are just the two most succesful lists we have. You can go with chariot list, monster mayhem, baby bray-shaman spam, anti-magic (full of scrolls and cygors), shooting with cygors and ungor raiders, and those are just what I can think of off the top of my head!