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My friend and I were playing a 1250 pt game, as that was all he could field. Here's our lists (they might be slightly off)

I was orks:
2 x KFF Meks
3 x 5 Lootas
3 x 30 Slugga Boyz & 3 big shootas, with nobs and pk's
1 x Deffkopta with t/l rokkits

Space marines:
Basic HQ, termie armor and lightning claws
3 x Tac squads with flamers and plasma cannons
2 x Whirlwinds
1 x 10 Terminators with lightning claws

I didn't really know what he was taking, so I wrote up a quick list. He decided that the SS/TH termies would die to orks, and so decided to field Lightning claws and took Whirlwinds because of their template spamming.

The first game, I shot at the whirlwinds with one squad of lootas, and was forced to maneuver the others because of his corner camping deployment. I ran the three squads of Boyz, and shot off the deffkopta, and produced a stunned result. Next turn, he ran his termies up and shot the others at my boyz, which took off less than five boyz that turn. My turn I used one squad of lootas to shoot at a whirlwind, and did nothing. I then shot the other two at the tac squads covering the whirlwinds. Ran my ork boyz again. On his turn, he shot off his tac squads, hurting one squad of lootas and damaging another squad of orks. His lightning termies then proceeded to eat into my ork boyz squad, and slaughtered them. His termies then chewed through all my ork boyz before I knew what was happening, and so I conceeded.

We played a second game and I deployed a bit better. He corner camped again, which I can understand because he's a shooty army. I only had to reposition one squad of lootas, which helped immensely. Because of the last game, I started to focus my fire on the terminators as the whirlwinds and tac squads wouldn't hurt me as much as the terminators. This helped, as I took off at least three termies before my boyz charged in. I killed some of his terminators, but fearless hurt me and I lost at least 10 to him just because of fearless. Not much happened, and on my next turn I assaulted another squad of boys into the mix. I proceeded to lose both squads due to fearless and multiple assault rules that I didn't know. I killed his terminators with my lootas after that assault, but then the three tac squads proceeded to eat my remaining 30 boyz and lootas. Granted, I haven't played many games, but this taught me not to multiple assault like that, and to read the rules really well. If I had to do anything differently, I wouldn't have multiple assaulted against those terminators until my first ork squad was dead, and then I would have charged in with another squad.

What could I have done differently? I know how to kill off SS/TH termies, but how do I kill of LC terminators? I suspect that it is to throw vehicles against them, or just to shoot them to death. My biggest problem with them is that they strike first, and have the re rolls to wound. That combined with fearless decimates a squad very fast. What do you think I could do to improve my game?

LC Termies are a huge threat to orks - whereas (as you said) the other two variants aren't an issue.

But before I get to that, how large was your deployment? Not sure how he was able to fire upon your lootas with tac squads.

Also, why wait until your first squad is dead? If you mutliassault, he will have to divide his attacks between the two units, thus each unit will take considerably less damage, whereas you will pile man, many more hits into him - easily enough win the battle overall.

Not really sure why you believe multi-assault is a bad thing. Could you expand on that?

Generally I disagree with only taking 5 lootas, since the pressure to roll high for the number of shots is much more prevalent. I prefer a unit of 10-15.

You had the right idea though - use lootas to focus on the vehicles, while your boyz take care of the tacs and terminators. In general, Your idea to multi-assault the termies should work well, while the other unit of sluggas intercepts and takes out the other tacs.

He has slightly tailored his list to orks. The only worse thing would be landraiders.

I think you could out shoot him at range. Camp at the back and wait for him to come to you.

Also you seem like you need to learn about how to use scenery. Admittedly at larger points it is easier to push his army towards the aim of lootas. In general lootas are ap4 so against his troops cover will not matter.

He was able to shoot the lootas because he moved up the tac squads. Unfortunately, I didn't take any pictures, as it would have made explaining it much easier. Terrain was pretty sparse, just two small hills in the center of the board. Because he had a lot of templates and I deployed first, I spread out across the whole board to keep my options open.

The reason I didn't like multi assaults during the second game, was because my first ork squad had just barely enough boyz to reach fearless, and the second ork unit had almost all of it's units. Because of his assualt placement, I wasn't able to get all the orks into assualt range and so I couldn't wipe out his squad. Because I lost more units then he did, both squads had to suffer fearless losses. That was what really did me in; if I had been able to get all ork boyz into assualt range, I probably could have wiped them out. This really showed me that unit placement is absolutely critical when playing orks.

The reason that I took 3 units of five lootas was because thier leadership isn't amazing and I wanted to cover as much as the board as possible.

I also tried to keep his termies away from my ork boyz in the second game, but I moved them forward and misjudged distances. If I didn't do that, I could have whittled away at him and then gotten the charge in. My Waagh! was also poorly executed, as I wasn't able to get any units into assualt range at all.

I feel that a kan wall/battlewagon bash would have destroyed his list, but I want to just focus on purchasing infantry units, as once I have enough models to run a green tide, it will be very easy to change to any other type of army I want to (plus no matter what edition you are playing, the green tide will always be at least semi-competitive.) If you have any tips on how I can improve anything, please keep the suggestions coming.

He's shafting you. You need a LOT of terrain, to the extent that you should be getting a cover save against pretty much all of his shooting. The rulebook recommends 25% of the board, try to make it varied - a few ruins, a few trees, etc.

With kff the first squad gets a 5+ save the rest of the army should be able to use the squad to get a 4+ save.
If anything without terrain is better: the lootas can be placed with most of the board in their sights.

Also if you get first turn you should be able to scout the kopta, fire rockets and buzzsaw a whirlwind.
Second try to outflank.
In either case turbo boost to get a cover save.

Yep, the meks gave me a coversave for most of the game. I didn't run the deffkopta with a buzzsaw, as I didn't see it worth the points. I will try experimenting with it. I did scout it the 24 inches, and then on my turn I shot at the Whirlwinds with it and put it into an assualt as it would have been shot and killed the next turn. It then proceeded to kill three marines and lasted till turn three. How many deffkoptas would you run in 1000 pt, 1500 pt, and 2000 pt games?

As for the terrain, I agree, I need to use more. Parking the lootas somewhere is definitely something I need to do. I think my biggest issue though is assualts, as I haven't figured out placement or the proper strategy for it. Got any tips on that?

The buzzsaw would probably get autohits and pop it for sure. The whirlwind can move and shoot but no marine knows that.

Really assaults shouldn't be the issue as you have your waaaghh. If you want stretch one unit in front of your army, the enemy has to assault into one squad, this will guarantee you the counterassault the next turn with the rest of your army.

In general be more careful with distances, if you stand back and shoot the big shootas you should be measuring how far away the assault termies are each turn.
You'll learn what 6''/12'' looks like soon enough.

Also spread out our orks to avoid those nasty templates.

MFletch wrote:
In general be more careful with distances, if you stand back and shoot the big shootas you should be measuring how far away the assault termies are each turn.
You'll learn what 6''/12'' looks like soon enough.

You can measure as much as you like in the new edition, thank god.

Dude hes tailored his list to infantry pertty well, a single battle wagon with burna boys would make him one sad panda.

Also to minimize changes to your list, take only one mek with KKF and take the other with a shokk attack gun. then if he comes out of cover he dies, and if he stays well atleast his save is only 4+ now and you should kill half of what you hit, but yeah shoot shoot shoot those termies before you assault them as they get to go first with them LC's

Alright, thanks for all the help so far! I will take everything you guys have mentionEd into account. I think I'll buy some more boyz and then wait till sixth hits before i buy anything else. Thanks again!

Another major factor: KFF Meks. You are spending 170 points on defense, which works 1/3 of the times and won't kill anything.

A kitted out Warboss and a trukk will run less that 170 by far, and let you actually kill something. But 11 more lootas. Use a full squad of trukk Boyz or Kommandos or some stormboyz. Give yourself a mobile threat to keep the whirlwind's busy.

I have played against 6 opponents with KFF Meks and they all did the same thing - Cower to get cover saves.

You play Orks! You don't hide or huddle, you surge and smash and WAAAGH! That's my biggest personal beef with the KFF Mek: it changes your mentality to "defense first".

Seppuku wrote:You play Orks! You don't hide or huddle, you surge and smash and WAAAGH! That's my biggest personal beef with the KFF Mek: it changes your mentality to "defense first".

?

The point of KFF is to keep your boyz and kanz alive so that you can actually get there and smash! The trukk by itself has the most fragile stats in the game. With the KFF, it suddenly becomes MUCH harder to kill - ergo your boyz can get stuck in more often. It augments your offensive capability - I've never seen anyone suggest it forces the Ork player into a defensive strategy.

HOWEVER, in regards to an infantry only list (which is what's being run here), I'd agree that the KFF doesn't have nearly as much effect. Indeed, tossing in two warbosses should help a lot.

Bwuh? The whole point of spending points on Big Meks with KFF is that you have cover on the move - you precisely *don't* have to cower or go out of your way to hug terrain.

That said, trading one Big Mek for a little more offensive power is probably a good idea.

KFF is better value the higher the point level of the game. At lower point games it is protecting less assets against less shooting. There is no reason to run two of them in this army, especially at that point level. You'd be better off with pretty much anything else, even another buzzcopta.

-Myst

I will try out some wAr bosses next time we play. KFF meks and ghazzy are the only two hq's ive played with, and ghazzy really belongs in a transport although his waagh! Is extremely sweet.