Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm entering a tournament in 3 weeks, I have chosen to use SM with Khan (Bike), bikes (2 times full squads), Pred (Shooty), Landspeeder typhoon and tactical marines (2 times 10 men+Rhino)... The one elite unit I have chosen is a squad of Terminators in a LR Crusader... I use the Crusader over Redeemer on the off chance that I either end up on the wrong table edge, or require the extra range to shoot at targets further into the field... The question I need to answer is this, do I take them as Assault terminators 3LC and 2TH/SS, or 5 Tactical terminators?...
I often find that my LR will end up busted as it enters play or people are aware that terminators will be outflanking in the LR and thus move as far away from edges as possible...
I have tested this list a couple of times and both types seem to work well...

Tactical-
< Obviously the tactical terminator sarg is the only one in the Tac terminator squad to benefit from the assault launchers...
> Ability to not only fire before charging but just using them as well out of the LR transport (say DS, or just outflanking without the LR)...
> If they flee, for whatever reason, then at least they can fire as they retreat (Which is a long march if they Outflank, but still firing at 24"...
< Low on regular Int attacks (Which is a bummer when they decide to join up with Khan)...

Assault-
< Haven't used them much...
> Awesome amount of mixed Int PW attacks, rerolls to wound, stunned targets and vehicles...
> Great when khan joins unit for a charge into combat...
< No ranged weapons, which sucks when they flee, or are left out of enemy move/charge range...
> 3+ invuns for SS (Is better than the 5+, But I do only have 2 in the squad, and only have these saves when allocating the first 2 PW or AP1/2 wounds to the squad)...
> LC's take full advantage of the assault launchers...

Assault Termies every time. 3xTH/SS minimum. Tactical Termies are often wiped out by low-Ap fire before they contribute much to the game.

neither. 5 TH/SS or don't bother with them. Some people will disagree of course.

Here is my reasoning. Vanilla LCs are I4. A speed that scary power weapon toting units that you actually need to worry about are well above. If there is a I4 or lower unit actually scary for your unit, don't charge it.

Termies laugh at anything without PWs. But power weapon units mostly will bounce off of thunder shields. Then get thoroughly squished by the hammers. The hammers are also good against vehicles, especially useful to avoid dread tarpitting that LC units will fall into.

More shields means your guys last longer against AP fire and PWs. More hammers means more chances to kill armor and/or squish multi wound models.

LCs do a really good job killing things that marines can kill normally (though admittedly not as fast). TH kill things that marines struggle with in CC. Support them with a nullzone librarian and there isn't much they can't kill, and there isn't much that can easily kill them at equal points.

One concern however I have with what your list is. Its pretty much a couple of what is cool mixed together. Like a picture of a WD battle. Also known as a casual list. It might be fine where you are playing (or required, I occasionally hear horror stories about Comp in some places), but that list isn't going to survive a focused tourney list piloted by a competent player.

What point level are you playing at?

I would go with Khan joining an Assault Termie squad (4 shields, 2 claws) in the LRC. That makes for a pretty powerfull deathstar with the furious charge (brings your claws to I5 and S5). The only issue with this is that you lose the ability to use bike squad as troops.

If you wanna keep Khan on a bike then I would lose the termies and Land Raider alltogether and get a command squad on bikes with 4 shields, 2TH, 2 claws, 4 meltaguns and the apothecary. Or throw in a libby on bike with null-zone (always usefull).

I've done a Khan/Tigurius/assault termie squad in a LRC before for a friendly game with good results; probably wouldn't be very competitive though.

Well 6th is out soon, is the tournament in 5th or 6th edition rules?

notabot187 wrote:neither. 5 TH/SS or don't bother with them. Some people will disagree of course.

Here is my reasoning. Vanilla LCs are I4. A speed that scary power weapon toting units that you actually need to worry about are well above. If there is a I4 or lower unit actually scary for your unit, don't charge it.

Termies laugh at anything without PWs. But power weapon units mostly will bounce off of thunder shields. Then get thoroughly squished by the hammers. The hammers are also good against vehicles, especially useful to avoid dread tarpitting that LC units will fall into.

More shields means your guys last longer against AP fire and PWs. More hammers means more chances to kill armor and/or squish multi wound models.

LCs do a really good job killing things that marines can kill normally (though admittedly not as fast). TH kill things that marines struggle with in CC. Support them with a nullzone librarian and there isn't much they can't kill, and there isn't much that can easily kill them at equal points.

One concern however I have with what your list is. Its pretty much a couple of what is cool mixed together. Like a picture of a WD battle. Also known as a casual list. It might be fine where you are playing (or required, I occasionally hear horror stories about Comp in some places), but that list isn't going to survive a focused tourney list piloted by a competent player.

This, the good man has said everything

notabot187 wrote:Termies laugh at anything without PWs.

Not... exactly. High quantity of attacks easily bypasses 2+. It's why Orks aren't really bothered by vanilla or TH/SS termies. LC's, on the other hand, will cause them to err, due to the LC's hitting before them, and re-rolling failed to-wounds. Trukkboyz would avoid them, where Trukkboyz could be tempted to intercept any other type of Terminator. The same could easily be said for Tyranids.

Basically - TH/SS for less hordy armies... of which is the majority of the game, I believe. So go with that I guess

Since you're playing nilla marines, I would suggest mostly TH/SS as the internet wisdom seems to suggest. As a BT player, I tend to run 3 hammers and 2 claws, but take into consideration that my claws always have furious charge/preferred enemy. I would say keep at least 1 claw to help with a mob of orks or something like that.

5 Thunder Hammers.

Simple reasons. Hordes will kill your terminators regardless of lightning claws. You don't attack hordes with your assault terminators. You attack enemy elites with your assault terminators and those won't really be phased by lightning claws.

Use things armed with bolters to kill hordes. Use hammernators to smash those things that ignore your bolters. It's called synergy.

Thanks for the replies, Its going to be 5th ed. as the 6th ed. rules have only been released, the points are 1850, its 5 games over 2 days, 45 people have signed up for 40k, 3 of 5 are troops based objectives...



Automatically Appended Next Post:
In my last practise game I went Tactical and my opponent was using BT with the TH/SS combo. 3 of his died in a single round of shooting to boltpistols, the rest were killed by 6 regular marines, Lol... Mine didn't do much in close combat, however I scared him heaps by shooting up his marines from longer range, and for 4 turns. It was nice to get 10 shots at such range whilst always edging forwards, and only lost 2 the whole game after copping a tremendous amount of flak in return...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Second practise against tyranids using TH/SS... I realised very quickly that a mass of firepower/CC Attacks often negates the SS advantage, esp against tyranids (30 Gaunts, etc)... at least my tactical boys would be able to retreat and fire, or at least shot a few before they got swamped, They didn't get to the larger models (Shame) because he generally left those to speed away...