Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi all,

I think I saw this discussion some months back, but hadn't read through the many, many pages of it to see if my particular case had been solved or not. I have a friend who plays Tau, and he insists that his vehicles shouldn't be on bases because they have landing gear, and so they skim and then land at the end of each turn, so he can take advantage of cover yet "Hammerhead snipe" us at the same time.

Any thoughts? I'm pretty sure Piranhas must be on a base at all time, but even that he says makes the vehicle useless because it is such a large base, it would get hit all the time by template weapons.

They must all be on flying bases at all times, unless they are immobilised or wrecked, at which point the base is removed if possible.

Landing Gear has its own paragraph in the Tau Codex, which instructs the user to use it during any turn that the vehicle does not wish to move, so long as it's the 2nd turn or later. The Vehicle in question can then be removed from the flying base as it is no longer a skimmer, but it cannot move or benefit from any skimmer rules for as long as the landing gear is in use. As soon as it wishes to move again, it starts counting as a skimmer again, so the base must be replaced

For vehicles you use the hull not the base so the size of the pirhana base is not really relevant in that respect.

As long as he isn't changing bases during games I think it's ok. He might be lower down but doesn't have the same line of sight that he'd have if on a higher base.

Actually it does matter as the rules for assault sya base or hull. So if the base sticks out over the pirhanna hull normally then using a smaller base would conflict with this.

EDIT but for shooting the base makes no difference.

Avatar 720 wrote:They must all be on flying bases at all times, unless they are immobilised or wrecked, at which point the base is removed if possible.

This is 100% correct.

P.3 says the models must be glued to the base they came with.

Follow-up question: so if he actually wants to use models that are blatantly smaller than a piranha (think the size of a terminator on a flying stick) then we should normally tell him to shove it and get proper models?

He wants to have the cheapest army possible, so he is contemplating using old hot wheels helicopters as piranhas and remoras.

If that's the case, tell him that you'll use a cheap voltron toy as a warlord titan. Ultra-mega-heavy weapons and you may benefit from cover.

Avatar 720 wrote:They must all be on flying bases at all times, unless they are immobilised or wrecked, at which point the base is removed if possible.

Landing Gear has its own paragraph in the Tau Codex, which instructs the user to use it during any turn that the vehicle does not wish to move, so long as it's the 2nd turn or later. The Vehicle in question can then be removed from the flying base as it is no longer a skimmer, but it cannot move or benefit from any skimmer rules for as long as the landing gear is in use. As soon as it wishes to move again, it starts counting as a skimmer again, so the base must be replaced

First part, correct. However, there is nothing in the tau codex that allows you to remove the base if you do not act as a skimmer. When the codex was written, skimmers that got immobilized, would immediately crash.

I glue my Skimmers to the actual BOTTOM of the base, so they are skimming just along the ground. They still have a tangible base and they aren't actually hitting the ground, but they aren't nearly as high as other skimmers. I have never had any players or TO disallow their play as the cover is hurting me just as much as it is helping me. However, using the proper models is always key and I would at minimum make him cut out a cardboard silhouette that is the same rough dimensions as the model so melee and range can be done properly.

Edit: I started doing this since I kept having the Flying Bases break on me, or make my Skimmers into hot-rods that looked stupid on the playing field. I have actually grown to like the look of this way more, and it's nice not having a base break every few games or my army look really stupid.

And technically that's against the (current) rules as the flying base consists of both the base and the stem.

Farseer Mael Dannan wrote:I glue my Skimmers to the actual BOTTOM of the base, so they are skimming just along the ground. They still have a tangible base and they aren't actually hitting the ground, but they aren't nearly as high as other skimmers. I have never had any players or TO disallow their play as the cover is hurting me just as much as it is helping me. However, using the proper models is always key and I would at minimum make him cut out a cardboard silhouette that is the same rough dimensions as the model so melee and range can be done properly.

Edit: I started doing this since I kept having the Flying Bases break on me, or make my Skimmers into hot-rods that looked stupid on the playing field. I have actually grown to like the look of this way more, and it's nice not having a base break every few games or my army look really stupid.

Simple fix; use metal rod for the flying stems.

Happyjew wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:They must all be on flying bases at all times, unless they are immobilised or wrecked, at which point the base is removed if possible.

Landing Gear has its own paragraph in the Tau Codex, which instructs the user to use it during any turn that the vehicle does not wish to move, so long as it's the 2nd turn or later. The Vehicle in question can then be removed from the flying base as it is no longer a skimmer, but it cannot move or benefit from any skimmer rules for as long as the landing gear is in use. As soon as it wishes to move again, it starts counting as a skimmer again, so the base must be replaced

First part, correct. However, there is nothing in the tau codex that allows you to remove the base if you do not act as a skimmer. When the codex was written, skimmers that got immobilized, would immediately crash.

The Rulebook states that Skimmers use flying bases. If the vehicle is no longer a skimmer, then you do not have permission to use the flying base.

Yes you do have permission. Its in the rules that say that the model must be on the base that was provided with the model.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

Farseer Mael Dannan wrote:I glue my Skimmers to the actual BOTTOM of the base, so they are skimming just along the ground. They still have a tangible base and they aren't actually hitting the ground, but they aren't nearly as high as other skimmers. I have never had any players or TO disallow their play as the cover is hurting me just as much as it is helping me. However, using the proper models is always key and I would at minimum make him cut out a cardboard silhouette that is the same rough dimensions as the model so melee and range can be done properly.

Edit: I started doing this since I kept having the Flying Bases break on me, or make my Skimmers into hot-rods that looked stupid on the playing field. I have actually grown to like the look of this way more, and it's nice not having a base break every few games or my army look really stupid.

Simple fix; use metal rod for the flying stems.

Yep, I know at least one site (Speepy, IIRC) where you can get turned aluminum stems for flying bases.

Ghaz wrote:Yes you do have permission. Its in the rules that say that the model must be on the base that was provided with the model.

So if for whatever reason your Rhino came with an oval flying base, you would be forced to use it?

If you can prove that it was supposed to be there and was not a mispack then yes, according to the (current) rules you must use it.

No, according to the current rules if it came with it, you must use it.


Mispacks don't matter.


I still have Ork warbikes without any base because that is how they were packed.

I also have dreads on 2 differently sized large bases(One flat and slightly smaller in diameter, and 2 on the raised, current bases); then I have new termies on medium bases, and Old ones on small bases.

Avatar 720 wrote:The Rulebook states that Skimmers use flying bases. If the vehicle is no longer a skimmer, then you do not have permission to use the flying base.

There is absolutely no basis for that in the rules.

Yes, skimmers use flight bases. Nothing says that other models can't be on flight bases. Instead, we're simply told to use the base the model comes with. So if your vehicle came with a flight base, it has to be on it.

Nothing in the rules requires or allows you to remove the base when the skimmer stops being a skimmer.

If it's already been proven to be wrong, does it really need restating?

Kommissar Kel wrote:No, according to the current rules if it came with it, you must use it. Mispacks don't matter.

And what wording in the rules have anything to do with mispacked models? It may have came in the same box, but if its a mispack then it was not provided for use with that model.

The point he mainly made was that he couldn't keep his hammerheads on the highest level of buildings as well because the base was too big (which I can somewhat understand, I'd hate to fling a model off such a high perch. F=MA, after all)

My rebuttal at the time had been that then he couldn't stop his vehicle there, period.

If the reason that it couldn't fit was that the model was unstable on the base but it was legal to get there then the model dose not have to be there. You can take it off its base and leave the base to represent it being there. You can't gain a gameing advantage from it but if you are not leaving a model in place to stop it crashing to the ground that is fine. See the concept of wobbly model syndrome (the rule, not the web comic)

The model terrains were 1-the top of a statue and 2-the apex of a ruined cathedral roof, on account that both were (because of the range from model to model) outside of my weapons' range but not out of his railguns'.

I'm pretty sure things like Statues are impassable terrain, so, he couldn't end his turn there anyways.

Unless you counted the giant, solid Space Marine statue as Difficult Terrain. >.>

Mathieu Raymond wrote:The model terrains were 1-the top of a statue and 2-the apex of a ruined cathedral roof, on account that both were (because of the range from model to model) outside of my weapons' range but not out of his railguns'.

A statue would be impassable terrain, in which case the skimmer can only land on top of it if the model will physically stand there. No removing the base to get around that rule.

For the ruin, Skimmers can only land on the ground floor.

Top of a ruin is ok too; it is considered Impassable to vehicles, and Skimmers may land on Impassable via the rules you cited above.

That's another old argument. It's never classified as "Impassible Terrain". It's difficult terrain which has a specified list of unit types which are allowed to be on floors above the ground.

Hopefully the issue is cleared up in 6th.