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I'm sure this has been covered somehwere but i couldn't find it in the search function. Forgive me if I am rehashing a dinosaur of a topic.

So my buddy and I had a little tussle during a game the other day while running my battlewagon through a forest. I rolled two dice for the deffrolla and he said that I have to roll them individually because my my chances of rolling snake eyes are less than if i roll a 1 twice individually.

Now, I am no master of math or probability but it just seemed ridiculous. I have a 1/6 chance of rolling a 1 on a single die and a 1/36 chance of rolling it twice with a single die. I have a 1/36 chance of rolling snake eyes on two dice at the same time.

He was very adamant that I was wrong and it was immoral for me to play like that. Naturally, i just rolled one at a time in order to ease the tension and continue playing. Am I in the wrong with this?

Your friend is crazy, rolling one die is independent of rolling a second one. One roll has no effect on the other one. When dealing with independent events we use the multiplication rule. The use of a tree diagram demonstrates that there are really 6 x 6 =36 outcomes from rolling two dice.

Since dice do not have a memory you have a 1/6 chance to roll a 1 on any given roll, weather you roll them one at a time or both together makes no difference whatsoever. the total probability of rolling two 1's is 1/36 as you said.

It makes no difference when these two dice are rolled, the probability is the same wither way.

Gosford wrote:IHe was very adamant that I was wrong and it was immoral for me to play like that.

Your friend is awful at math.

So since it makes no difference, just roll them one at a time and make him happy.

I knew I wasn't crazy. Again, i'm a horrible mathematician (liberal arts guy here) but i'm not THAT terrible.

Thanks!

I cannot see the rule cos I don't have the ork codex to hand but is it a re-roll situation or roll two and choose the best?

Personally I am against people rolling re-rolls at the time of rolling the original dice. I have seen people do it and pick up both and continue on with 2 shots from a twin-linked weapon.



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Also your friend is wrong as hell.

Tell him he has to declare all his shooting for a given unit, but must roll each shot separately to determine hitting and wounding. Same with all of his close combat attacks. Make sure you do the same. The only time you should roll more than 1 die at a time is when you have to roll 2D6, 3D6 etc. See how long it takes him to complain about a 500 point game taking all day long.

It's a reroll. You roll one die, then if it fails, you reroll it. You don't roll two dice.

lonekthx wrote:It's a reroll. You roll one die, then if it fails, you reroll it. You don't roll two dice.

Buty ou *can* do, because (for a single reroll) the odds are *exactly* the same.

If you roll the roll and re-roll together, as long as the dice are different, and you declare which one is the re-roll, I'm perfectly fine with rolling both dice together. I would not do it though.

Happyjew wrote:If you roll the roll and re-roll together, as long as the dice are different, and you declare which one is the re-roll, I'm perfectly fine with rolling both dice together. I would not do it though.

You realize that there is absolutely no statistical difference in rolling two dice at once or two dice one after the other? In order to fail a terrain test with a deff rolla wagon you need to roll two Whether you do that at once or one after the other has absolutely no bearing on the game.

The only time the result differs is when it matters which roll was the second one - which would only be for Get's Hot! as far as I'm aware.

Happyjew wrote:If you roll the roll and re-roll together, as long as the dice are different, and you declare which one is the re-roll, I'm perfectly fine with rolling both dice together. I would not do it though.

Unless you have a Gets Hot! weapon there is absolutely no difference between the two rolls

If I need to roll a reroll invulnerable save, for perils, then no matter what unless i get 2 5+ rolls I have taken a wound. Work it through

The issue is not with the statistical outcome, it is that people may get used to rolling two dice automatically in certain situations. The laxity means that you may have someone accidentally adding dice to their pool, I have had people do it when they were shooting from combi-bolters.

Plus in the 5th ed rulebook being permissive rules you can only roll a dice when stated, hate to sound like TFG but hey.

Indeed. Which is why people have correctly stated the rules. Pointing out that in most situations it makes no difference, and can be quicker, doesnt alter that.

The *main* issue IS that people dont understand basic statistics, and what an independent event is.

liturgies of blood wrote:The issue is not with the statistical outcome, it is that people may get used to rolling two dice automatically in certain situations. The laxity means that you may have someone accidentally adding dice to their pool, I have had people do it when they were shooting from combi-bolters.

Plus in the 5th ed rulebook being permissive rules you can only roll a dice when stated, hate to sound like TFG but hey.

In shooting situations and CC it can be important to roll the re-roll separately(especially with gets hot), in the OPs example you only reroll on a fail and rolling both at the same time means you just speed things up and the only difference between the two methods is time. I do it allot for the night fighting roll on imotekh trying to keep night fighting in effect, I tell the opponent since I have a cryptek(with chronometron) with him that I am just going to roll 2d6 for sake of time(especially when I went to a tournament with set time for rounds), I made sure to explain before the game I would be doing it though and made sure the opponent was ok with it.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Indeed. Which is why people have correctly stated the rules. Pointing out that in most situations it makes no difference, and can be quicker, doesnt alter that.

The *main* issue IS that people dont understand basic statistics, and what an independent event is.

^ this. I would never roll two dice at the same time for Get's Hot! or pretty much any other situation unless the rule was written in the manner of Reinforced Ram. I only ever do it for time purposes.

There is no benefit to rolling two dice at the same time other than speeding up the game(except with gets hot). As it is not the way the rules are written it's better to just ask your opponent if they care if you roll the roll and the re-roll at the same time, most people wont care, if they say no then just do it the normal way.

I did this at the last tournament I went to and all of my opponents were ok with it because it meant my night fighting rolls took less time in a 2 hour match.