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Just as title says, I do not have a copy of the 6th ed yet just want to know if things are looking gloom for a hoard imperial guard army with the new rules?

Well, that depends, a CC hoard or a gunline hoard?

CC but lets look at both

The general consensus is melee got nerfed. If I am interpreting the info correctly from the threads about 6th edition rules.

ruff wrote:The general consensus is melee got nerfed. If I am interpreting the info correctly from the threads about 6th edition rules.

"melee nerf" is relative.

Less melee nerf, and more shooting buff. Unless sweeping advance got gutted somehow... (though the assault range rules are just hideous for melee)

And hull points should bring vehicle spam under control.

Although, if you math them out, heavy weapons squads are suddenly an amazing value IMO. Especially with Bring It Down and a trio of Autocannons or Lascannons.

Oh...and if I read the vehicle shooting rules right, Hellhounds are absolutely vile now. Especially in night fight turns.

If you're looking at IG as a CC based army, I don't think 6th edition is your problem...

A gunline looks great though-lots of HW teams, mix up LCs and ACs, Vendettas, couple Hydras, and small units of guard with MORE HWs in each unit. Should give you enough to run rampant over anything you don't like and some protection against flyers. Finish of with some LR demolishers and go nuts. Throw in Mephiston and a unit of JP DC too for some REAL fun.

horde = lots of things

hoard = pile of wealth

Kaldor wrote:horde = lots of things

hoard = pile of wealth

Well duh-somebody has to pay for all the imperial womens to keep pumping out babies to be used on the front line.

Overwatch rule, when assualted everyone in the squad gets a shot at the assaulters at BS1

50 man conscript squad...

BS 2 BS 1... Whats the difference!

Talamare wrote:Overwatch rule, when assualted everyone in the squad gets a shot at the assaulters at BS1

50 man conscript squad...

BS 2 BS 1... Whats the difference!

Its the same with orks and there BS 2. We will hit a lot less with overwatch, but it can help thin them down hopefully lol..

Cover saves definitely put a dent in my battle plans, but I think I can find away around that by sacrificing my three russes to the infantry gods and buying another platoon.

Who needs a 4 wound battle cannon when you have multiple 10 wound lascannons?

Flamers almost become a must as they get d3 autohits when used in Overwatch.

If it weren't for Gets Hot I'd probably disagree with you.
But 15 points for, in an average blob, 3 D3 S4 auto-hits, is pretty sweet.

So who exactly has overwatch? As far as I have hear flamers can't be fired under snap fire...which is different, but I just didn't know if platoons have overwatch or not.

riverhawks32 wrote:So who exactly has overwatch? As far as I have hear flamers can't be fired under snap fire...which is different, but I just didn't know if platoons have overwatch or not.

Pretty much every non vehicle has overwatch, except it doesnt work with blasts

Flamers can only be snap fired under overwatch

in which case they cause d3 auto hits

Lets say its not smart to charge into a WALL OF FIRE

Arandmoor wrote:

Although, if you math them out, heavy weapons squads are suddenly an amazing value IMO. Especially with Bring It Down and a trio of Autocannons or Lascannons.

Weren't they already? Or did I miss something in the rules? They still can TL, although I do see snapfire helping them out. And shooting at flyers, anything else?

Talamare wrote:Overwatch rule, when assualted everyone in the squad gets a shot at the assaulters at BS1

50 man conscript squad...

BS 2 BS 1... Whats the difference!

My thought exactly!

UMGuy wrote:

Arandmoor wrote:

Although, if you math them out, heavy weapons squads are suddenly an amazing value IMO. Especially with Bring It Down and a trio of Autocannons or Lascannons.

Weren't they already? Or did I miss something in the rules? They still can TL, although I do see snapfire helping them out. And shooting at flyers, anything else?

Now the unit can move while the heavy weapon doesn't, and it can still fire at regular BS. Or if it does have to move along with the rest of the unit, it can still snap-fire.

The new 25% rally rule helps too. It means that allot of squads who previously would have run off the board, have a chance to rally and stick around.

I thin most of my foot slogging guards assaults are going to be handled by cheap PCS and SWS with flamers, instead of Power blobs. I think I might re-paint all their banners to say "Kill it with FIRE!"

I'm sorry, but the term snap fire is new to me, can someone explain it?

And as far as gun line guard improvements....when the new IG codex comes out, HW squads will probably cost more points (say 70 base or 75) and/or the LC or ML upgrades may cost more as they seem to be more effective or useful. I see vendetta and hydra points going uo too (150 for vendetta, and 90 for hydra)

Doesn't D3 auto hits, in some occasions, hit less than before? A template weapon could hit 5 guys behind cover, but d3 auto hits means only 3 of them feel the fire and the other two watch their friends burn while whipping out some marshmallows and looking for a place to sit. (until the next turn when they suffer the same fate)

I'm sure I've got all of this^ turned around, backwards, and inside out. But this is how I'm seeing it. please correct me

We wont get a new codex for along time yet. There are others that are in need of it more than we do and chances are when we do get a new book every thing will cost less (as born out by the last twenty years of playing) in the next codex, making us buy more to plug the gaps in our point based lists. But hay I'd be more than happy if Vet squads price dropped to 50pts and Chims to 30pts

Talamare wrote:

riverhawks32 wrote:So who exactly has overwatch? As far as I have hear flamers can't be fired under snap fire...which is different, but I just didn't know if platoons have overwatch or not.

Pretty much every non vehicle has overwatch, except it doesnt work with blasts

Flamers can only be snap fired under overwatch

in which case they cause d3 auto hits

Lets say its not smart to charge into a WALL OF FIRE

Unfortunately flamers are template weapons and do not get the benefit of snap shots.

Overwatch simply refers you back to snap shots and snap shots specifically rules template weapons out.

I've stared into the rulebook a number of times and have not found the D3 thing anywhere. I think it was a product of rumor mongering that was never removed from the rumors. If someone can point me to the page that shows me I'm wrong I will be glad to stick all sorts of flamers into my guard. Until then I will wonder how a flamer can be an assault weapon, but cannot be fired while being assaulted while a lascannon which is not an assault weapon can.

bogalubov wrote:

Talamare wrote:

riverhawks32 wrote:So who exactly has overwatch? As far as I have hear flamers can't be fired under snap fire...which is different, but I just didn't know if platoons have overwatch or not.

Pretty much every non vehicle has overwatch, except it doesnt work with blasts

Flamers can only be snap fired under overwatch

in which case they cause d3 auto hits

Lets say its not smart to charge into a WALL OF FIRE

Unfortunately flamers are template weapons and do not get the benefit of snap shots.

Overwatch simply refers you back to snap shots and snap shots specifically rules template weapons out.

I've stared into the rulebook a number of times and have not found the D3 thing anywhere. I think it was a product of rumor mongering that was never removed from the rumors. If someone can point me to the page that shows me I'm wrong I will be glad to stick all sorts of flamers into my guard. Until then I will wonder how a flamer can be an assault weapon, but cannot be fired while being assaulted while a lascannon which is not an assault weapon can.

Page 51, under Template Weapons, Wall of Death, "Template weapons can fire Overwatch, even though they cannot fire Snap Fire" (sic)

Luke_Prowler wrote:

bogalubov wrote:

Talamare wrote:

riverhawks32 wrote:So who exactly has overwatch? As far as I have hear flamers can't be fired under snap fire...which is different, but I just didn't know if platoons have overwatch or not.

Pretty much every non vehicle has overwatch, except it doesnt work with blasts

Flamers can only be snap fired under overwatch

in which case they cause d3 auto hits

Lets say its not smart to charge into a WALL OF FIRE

Unfortunately flamers are template weapons and do not get the benefit of snap shots.

Overwatch simply refers you back to snap shots and snap shots specifically rules template weapons out.

I've stared into the rulebook a number of times and have not found the D3 thing anywhere. I think it was a product of rumor mongering that was never removed from the rumors. If someone can point me to the page that shows me I'm wrong I will be glad to stick all sorts of flamers into my guard. Until then I will wonder how a flamer can be an assault weapon, but cannot be fired while being assaulted while a lascannon which is not an assault weapon can.

Page 51, under Template Weapons, Wall of Death, "Template weapons can fire Overwatch, even though they cannot fire Snap Fire" (sic)

Much obliged.

That does make flamers pretty sweet. I wonder if it's worth it to trade my blobbed melta guns for flamers now. The flamers give me some recourse against assault, but will the lack of melta guns render the guardsmen susceptible to tank shock?

The new wound allocation rules would seem to indicate an end or at least change of playstyle for the PW blob and the reduction of PW to AP3 doesn't help either.

This is an assumption on my part as I am still gawping at the prettiness of the CE without actually reading the rules yet, can anyone confirm this?

Power blobs are now dead, so, rather harshly.

In general, it's still going to be very possible to win with foot guard, but they've lost a lot of their razzle dazzle, and are going to have to rely on better playing to come through.

I disagree, at least in the sense that there is no point in putting power weapons in a blob. Power blobs are still viable, It's just now they are more of a defensive gunline that still has some bite when it gets charged, as opposed to actively pursuing close combat like they did before.

I think that a blob with an Aegis Defense has a real possibility. You get cover, can shoot, etc. Takes care of a few complaints, at any rate. Sure, snipers can be a problem...but we're assuming that an enemy is taking snipers. Even if they take a sniper group, thats usually 5 or less models. With luck, 1 sniper shot MIGHT get through. Then it has to deal with Lookout Sir! So you might lose a single guy every 12 sniper shots (at least to defined fire). Grenades might hurt a bit, but only 1 squad can throw 1 grenade a turn, and even then it is at an 8in range. If the enemy is THAT close, you have other problems. All in all, it changes things a lot but makes it MUCH more interesting without dooming anyone too much. Play smarter, not harder.

Omegus wrote:I disagree, at least in the sense that there is no point in putting power weapons in a blob. Power blobs are still viable, It's just now they are more of a defensive gunline that still has some bite when it gets charged, as opposed to actively pursuing close combat like they did before.

The problem with power blobs being dead is actually mostly to do with the fact that blobs, themselves, are dead. Your opponent will have plenty of opportunity to pick out your commissar before the first round of the first close combat is over.

Blobs required commissars. Without being able to reliably keep your commissars alive, you are now unreliably fielding blobs. So much, so, that if blobs are going to only sometimes exist and sometimes not, it's not really a viable strategy anymore, at least against players who know what they're doing. The only way to solve this is to spend a fortune on commissars - one per squad, rather than one per combined squad.

Or, like me, you can free up all those points previously locked into commissars. 3 power weapon commies taken out basically means a free russ!

ImpGuardPanzies wrote:
Doesn't D3 auto hits, in some occasions, hit less than before? A template weapon could hit 5 guys behind cover, but d3 auto hits means only 3 of them feel the fire and the other two watch their friends burn while whipping out some marshmallows and looking for a place to sit. (until the next turn when they suffer the same fate)

I'm sure I've got all of this^ turned around, backwards, and inside out. But this is how I'm seeing it. please correct me

Overwatch is a free shot you take when assaulted. Previously your flamer got 0 shots off when charged, now it gets 1d3 auto hits. You can still use your flamer normally in the shooting phase (unless you are in cc of course).