Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Can the -3 LD spell from lore of death be used on a stubborn model to any effect?

On a related (kind of) note, does stubborn affect the requirement of a 1,1 on Ld to pass when running away under (i think) 25% strength? I say no, my brother thinks maybe.

Edit: And I can't help your question, sorry tiarna, just thought it'd be silly when theres a stubborn thread already at the top to create another.

In fantasy stubborn=steadfast regardless of ranks, and thus only helps ignore casualties when taking LD for loosing CC.
So the answers are:
Tiarna Fuilteach – yes, it lowers LD by 3.
motyak – no.

You'll have to look at the BRB and it's FAQ to understand it all.

Cheers hoverboy

Cheers bro

To get super-duper anal retentive about it, when you take a leadership test after losing a round of combat, your Leadership is not actually modified. What you do is take a Ld test and add to the result the amount by which you lost combat. So, if you lost combat by two, and you roll a six, your total is an eight. You compare the eight to your Leadership value.

Stubborn/Steadfast means that you do not take that modifier on your break test; you merely use the straight roll and compare that to your Leadership value.

If some other thing is reducing/raising your Leadership, Stubborn/Steadfast has no effect on that, since Stubborn/Steadfast only applies to the modifiers to the roll that come from losing a round of combat. So, if you're within range of the DoC banner of -2 Leadership, hit by the -3 Ld spell from a Tzeentch Master of Death Magic, and whacked for -3 Ld by the Masque of Slaneesh, then your Ld value for the test is going to be at -8, regardless of whether or not you are applying the value of the lost combat to your roll.

I've never in 12 years heard of figuring out a break test that way.

I've always seen it done as such:
Your Ld is X
You lost combat by Y
The amount you need to roll on the break test is now X minus Y or lower.

This idea of adding things to Ld is convoluted.

Aerethan wrote:I've never in 12 years heard of figuring out a break test that way.

I've always seen it done as such:
Your Ld is X
You lost combat by Y
The amount you need to roll on the break test is now X minus Y or lower.

This idea of adding things to Ld is convoluted.

Thank you, otherwise kids would not be able to play the game...........................actually he might be on to something

Well, I might be smoking a bit too much of the crack rock, but I'm almost certain that the rules for break tests in the BRB follow the model I presented earlier. I'm at work right now, and don't have a rule book with me, or I'd check to be sure.

And, Aerethan, your way and my way are exactly the same thing.

Assume Ld=Leadership, X=die roll, and Y=combat resolution result.

Ld - Y <> X (this determines target number for the die roll before rolling the dice)

Is the exact same as

Ld <> X + Y (this determines the total result of the break test in comparison to the Leadership value)

when determining the results of the break test.

The reason, I believe, that it is important to calculate break test in the manner I explain above is specifically because of the issue of Steadfast/Stubborn. Many people mistakenly believe that Steadfast/Stubborn test on "unmodified Leadership," when it does not. Those rules only ignore the results of the lost combat when making the break test; other effects are still completely capable of modifying the unit's Leadership value.

It does say unmodified leadership, though. . . on page 54.

kirsanth wrote:It does say unmodified leadership, though. . . on page 54.

That's nice, and did you look at the FAQ like i suggested?

HoverBoy wrote:That's nice, and did you look at the FAQ like i suggested?

Well. . .I did when you wrote that. Then I looked in the book when the later post said he hadn't.



Yea. . .

More reading.

Gotta love how GW rules books come with FAQs almost as big as they are.

HoverBoy wrote:Gotta love how GW rules books come with FAQs almost as big as they are.

I blame the holiday between your post and mine.

Or rather the indulgence during the holiday. . . .

The post about adding what you lost by to the dice roll is actually from the daemons of chaos FAQ... But I think that is just for them so they can take more than 8 wounds if they get massacred in combat.