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Im hoping my friend and I are missing something here but a necron overlord in cc with a catacomb command barge supposedly has a 1+ save. A catacomb command barge is a chariot per the new erratta which gives a +1 to the rider's armor save in cc. We already checked the part talking about armor saves and nothing says its disallowed, so even if you get an ap1 ccw which I believe is only a warscythe he'd still have a 3++ to contend with. We're gonna play it that a roll of a 1 will fail but im still hoping someone proves me wrong here. <.<

Page 2, last sentence under Armour Saves.

I've only skimmed the new rules but I am pretty sure it is still where a 1 always fails when talking about armor saves.

Thats what I get for listening to people over the phone.

Hammer18 wrote: I've only skimmed the new rules but I am pretty sure it is still where a 1 always fails when talking about armor saves.

Much like last edition, I believe there is no rule that says a roll of a one always fails.

Ghaz wrote:

Hammer18 wrote: I've only skimmed the new rules but I am pretty sure it is still where a 1 always fails when talking about armor saves.

Much like last edition, I believe there is no rule that says a roll of a one always fails.

There is.

Page number and quote please, or else I stand by my statement.

Yeah a 2+ is always the best save you can get as i checked that when i read the chariot rules earlier, it does mean if you were so inclined you could leave the SW off your overlord and save a few points as this +1 to armour save will do the same thing for free, atleast until the CCB gets taken out and your overlord is on foot.

Pg19 of new rulebook under 'maximum save' ''no save can ever be improved beyond 2+''.

Ghaz wrote:Page number and quote please, or else I stand by my statement.

Page 19, Maximum Save

"However, no save (armour, cover or invulnerable) can ever be improved beyond 2+. Regardless of what is giving the model its save, a roll of a 1 always fails."

The sentence about improving beyond 2+ is in bold even, so should be easy to find again.

And you failed because you didn't roll a 2+, not because you rolled a 1.

Ghaz wrote:And you failed because you didn't roll a 2+, not because you rolled a 1.

Would that not be the same thing?

It also says just below that statement of 2+ being the best that a roll of 1 always fails.

PS Ghaz 5th ed also stated a roll of 1 always fails on page 24 under 'maximum save' pretty much same wording as 6th ' However no save can ever be improved beyond 2+. A roll of 1 always fails.'

No. Its not the same thing. The rule is that you can't have a save better than a 2+. As a result of that rule the roll of a 1 will always fail. One is the rule, the other is a result of the rule.

Ghaz wrote:And you failed because you didn't roll a 2+, not because you rolled a 1.

You must be a fething joy at parties.

Ghaz wrote:No. Its not the same thing. The rule is that you can't have a save better than a 2+. As a result of that rule the roll of a 1 will always fail. One is the rule, the other is a result of the rule.

And this is an important distinction because?

No one was ever talking about an overall "1 always fails" rule, it was always specific to saves.

EDIT: Ok, thinking about it some more, I can see where it could have potentially been an important distinction. If the rule had only been "1's always fail" without mention of a maximum save then that would open the door to improving your save to 1+ or 0+ and then getting a 2+ armour save against AP2 or AP1 weapons respectively. So while "at best 2+" implies "1's always fail", it doesn't work the other way around.

Ghaz wrote:No. Its not the same thing. The rule is that you can't have a save better than a 2+. As a result of that rule the roll of a 1 will always fail. One is the rule, the other is a result of the rule.

So it's basically a rule? Sounds like it.
anyway, the question has been answered.

Chrysis wrote:And this is an important distinction because?

... in a game that relies on the written word to convey the meaning of the rules, getting the terminology right from the start helps to reduce potential confusion later.

What we've seen in previous editions is players getting into their heads the idea that the rules say armour saves always fail on a 1, which gradually morphs into the mythical 'a roll of a 1 fails for everything' rule that gets presented on and off during various rules discussions.

Sticking to the actual rules in this situation helps people keep it straight.

So what dosnt fail on a roll of 1 ... minus Characteristic tests tricky devils.

Armour Penetration is the other obvious one.

Roll offs.
Seize the Initiative (Battle Missions only)
Armour Penetration

just to name a few.