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So we have the 6th Ed. Rulebook and the FAQs... And while some units went from Competitive to either Semi-Competitive or worse, some units that were considered weak or not as good can see a rise in popularity.

I'm thinking, for example, the Ravager - instead of 3 Dark Lance shots, if it's equipped with Desintegrators, it'll unload 9 Str 6 AP 2, which can be awesome against light vehicles and, more importantly, TEQ - which the Dark Eldar are going to be struggling against, as they "lost" two of their best means to counter them; Incubi and Wyches with Agonizer.

Which other units do you think might see a rise in popularity?

Vindicators with their large blast being S10 even if the hole is not under the target.

wuestenfux wrote:Vindicators with their large blast being S10 even if the hole is not under the target.

Loss of a BS reduction to scatter cancels this out essentially. Before scattering 7 inches on a land raider meant you'd still be on the hull. Now, you'll miss.

Vindicators just became as cool as their models. EDIT: Guess I should've read about Scattering. Though this is somewhat offset by the whole template hitting at the same strength.

MANz actually look cool, now that they don't move or charge as if through difficult terrain. Plus, 2+ is harder to negate. Now that Nobz don't have the funky wound allocation shenanigans, Mega Armoured Nobz might step up.

Since Mogul Kamir's Rage special rule (IG Rough Rider squad upgrade) went from being actively detrimental to being actually helpful I think he might show up a bit more often.

Lucas the trickster is still probably a little overcosted and his model is kind of funny looking, but damn is he going to be a good dueler.

1 - His pelt of the Doppleganger now works (enemy has to reroll sucessful hits)
2 - hits on 3 and has rerolls if needed.
3 - last laugh has one last ditch chance to take out the IC who killed him.

People need to quit it w the 'omg we cant handle teq because of power weapon nerf!!!' I watched a wych heavy army trash and table a deathwing army (both played by veteran tourney types) in 4 turns under new ed rules last night. Will it be harder? Yes. Is it impossible or unlikely? No. TEQ isnt exactly found in overwhelming abundance nor is it particularly OP

Joey wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Vindicators with their large blast being S10 even if the hole is not under the target.

Loss of a BS reduction to scatter cancels this out essentially. Before scattering 7 inches on a land raider meant you'd still be on the hull. Now, you'll miss.

What are you talking about, look under blast weapons you still have BS skill scatter reduction

I still think Meganobz will suck and be overcosted, but they will see a rise in popularity along with another sucky and overcosted unit in the Ork Codex, Mad Dok Grotsnik, for the perfectly legitimate reason that they are both awesome and will make a sweet deathstar. Even if it's stupid and underperforms, it will look awesome and make for interesting gameplay.

Stormboyz are probably still overcosted but maybe useful, and they were interesting anyway so people will start using them.

People will still not use Wierdboyz because I cannot think of a compelling reason that anybody would want to use those gakky units.

TedNugent wrote:

People will still not use Wierdboyz because I cannot think of a compelling reason that anybody would want to use those gakky units.

Three dakkajets and two wierdboys would be tons of fun. Between rolling a waagh! and one calling of your own in a six turn game you should get 3-4 of them. Thats a ton of dakka dropping out of the sky. Uber competitive... maybe not so much. Fun as hell for a few games... Totally.

Above 2k it could be a fun tactic with having 2 FoCs. 2 Warp'eads and 3 Dakkajets in one FoC "jus fer lolz", everything else can be as serious as you want. Especially now since Ghazzy is a less desirable HQ now.

chaos0xomega wrote:TEQ isnt exactly found in overwhelming abundance nor is it particularly OP

Oh, well post-5th meta is clearly going to reflect 6th meta in midswing.

How do you know how many TEQs there are going to be walking around even in a couple of weeks? If they are combat effective, or if they have received a net buff, you just might see an f-ton of them.

oh man, I want to see a 2k point ork army with 4 warpheads running around. That would be some serious battlefield chaos

chaos0xomega wrote:People need to quit it w the 'omg we cant handle teq because of power weapon nerf!!!' I watched a wych heavy army trash and table a deathwing army (both played by veteran tourney types) in 4 turns under new ed rules last night. Will it be harder? Yes. Is it impossible or unlikely? No. TEQ isnt exactly found in overwhelming abundance nor is it particularly OP

I'm not saying it's impossible. But not having AP2 on the Agonizer and the fact that units can use Overwatch (and against wyches, every hit from a boltgun will hurt a lot), plus the Raider's reduced distance, and the random charge, makes for a big downgrade altogether. What hurts the most is that the Codex, bar a few units, was overall competitive with three very different builds. Now Raiders and WWP lists lost a bit of "Omph".

But I think that the AP on CCWs makes sense, though it seems to hit DE close combat harder than it should. I think the only CCW in the codex that ignores 2+ saves is the demiklaive. At least now people might take the sargeant on Incubi... if they take Incubi at all.

Destrado wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:People need to quit it w the 'omg we cant handle teq because of power weapon nerf!!!' I watched a wych heavy army trash and table a deathwing army (both played by veteran tourney types) in 4 turns under new ed rules last night. Will it be harder? Yes. Is it impossible or unlikely? No. TEQ isnt exactly found in overwhelming abundance nor is it particularly OP

I'm not saying it's impossible. But not having AP2 on the Agonizer and the fact that units can use Overwatch (and against wyches, every hit from a boltgun will hurt a lot), plus the Raider's reduced distance, and the random charge, makes for a big downgrade altogether. What hurts the most is that the Codex, bar a few units, was overall competitive with three very different builds. Now Raiders and WWP lists lost a bit of "Omph".

But I think that the AP on CCWs makes sense, though it seems to hit DE close combat harder than it should. I think the only CCW in the codex that ignores 2+ saves is the demiklaive. At least now people might take the sargeant on Incubi... if they take Incubi at all.

Many DE unit sargents can take a power weapon. Just model it as a power axe if you really really really need that AP2. Yes, it would be nice to get the kills in before I1, but the game has changed. At least it is an option for those who feel the drastic need to be able to kill with AP2 in CC.

The rules specifically tell you to look at the model and use its appearance as the guide for what it is. Just because the whips look cool, I think you can get away with putting an axe head on the end of it and it could easily be called a power axe. Actually, that might be pretty cool looking and definitely fit under the unwieldy monicker.

It might be me, but I'm not too keen on the change. I think it'd fit better if Power Weapons had different "modes" (same as you can pick firing some weapons as Assault X or Heavy X).

I can't point out why but it doesn't seem that well thought of. As an example; can I count a PSword as a PAxe, since I don't think there's any plastic alternative for the Dark Eldar? When it's such a drastic change from the previous 3 editions - and especially on something that was simply for aesthetical reasons - it doesn't seem right.

Then again I just might need time to digest it.

Typhus seems to be better now that he is tougher to ID and can get Fiery Form to give himself more oomph in combat.

From what I've seen Typhus and Epidemus combo sounds nasty, but I'm not too savvy of their rules.

Was about to ask about Agonizers being considered Unusual power weapons, and if they could be used as +1S AP2, but it specifically states are treated as AP3. This means we can't consider Agonizers as PAxes. At Str5, wounding on 4+ and re-rolling against most things, they could've been interesting vs MEQs and specifically TEQs. Is it unfair?

EDIT: Had PAxes as +2S, d'oh!

Death Company, easily. I know I'll use them more. Too bad they can't score, but you can't argue with what they CAN do now, and it more than makes up for it.

Tau Stealth Suits got a little lovin' with Stealth and Shrouded

Tyranid Harpys, swooping around dropping 2 large blast templates a turn (3 on the turn it uses spore mine cyst) and can only be hit on 6:s (unless the enemy has skyfire)

Oh, and Nurgle Bikers, expensive as gak, but they finally have true 6 Toughness!!

Joey wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Vindicators with their large blast being S10 even if the hole is not under the target.

Loss of a BS reduction to scatter cancels this out essentially. Before scattering 7 inches on a land raider meant you'd still be on the hull. Now, you'll miss.

Where does it say you dont get that? page 33 says is just as clearly as the old book, you still get the reduction...