Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

In the 6th edition rulebook it states the rule

Out of Range
As long as a model was in range of the enemy when To Hit rolls were made, he is considered to be in range for the duration of the Shooting attack, even if the removal of casualties means that the closest model now lies out of range.

Suppose I'm shooting bolt pistols at a unit which has 1 guy 12 inches away, and the rest of the squad is more than 12 inches. They are all in LOS. Does this rule mean that, once the one guy within 12 inches is removed as a casualty, even though the closest model is now out of range, I still keep removing more casualties? or does it mean that the MODEL has to be in range when rolling to hit to begin with? The rule seems to mean different things if you only look at only the first or second half of it. The first half talks about a MODEL being in range, and the 2nd half talks about the closest model being out of range, but still resolving wounds against them because you already rolled to hit.

So, can only that one guy within 12" be killed? or can the whole squad be killed? Thanks

It means you keep allocating. When it comes to range all that matters is that your were in range when you rolled to hit. Once you've rolled to hit you can completely forget about range.

So yes, in the bolt pistols example even if the save against the very first wound allocated is failed the rest of the wounds will still be allocated.

thank you sir

The subject model in this is the FIRING model, not the target model units.

So, I have 10 marines with bolt pistols. They are lined up single-file, and they want to shoot at a unit of orks. The first space marine is 11" from the closest ork, and can shoot. The second space marine is 13" from the closest ork, and so CANNOT shoot. The other marines are even farther away, and cannot shoot.

Correct?

Yep.

In that case, isn't the answer to the OP no? In the OP's example, let's say 10 marines fire one shot per model for a total of 10 shots. There is only ONE enemy ork within range of these 10 shots. The first shot kills the ork, who is removed from the board. The remaining 9 shots are simply lost - they are NOT allocated to any other enemy models because there are no enemy models within range to receive those shots.

Pg. 16 under "Out of Range"

As long as a model was in range of the enemy when "to hit" rolls were made, he is considered to be in range for the duration of the shooting attack, even if the removal of casualties means that the closest model now lies out of range.

Pretty much, as long as your models are in range when you roll to hit, you remain in range throughout the wounding and casualty removal process.

You have 10 bolt pistol marines shooting at a mob of orks. The closest ork is within range, but the rest are not. You get 5 wounds. Your opponent MUST continue to allocate wounds after the only ork in range dies.

Think about it as the unit was in range of being shot during the the 'to hit' rolls, so the unit continues taking wounds.

-cgmckenzie

Unit =\= model, two completely different words.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I read it this way:

The rule was put in place to stop crazy wound allocations that would invalidate valid to-wound throws. Let's take this scenario:

A B
C D E



1 2
3 4 5

(Letters are the models being shot, numbers are the models doing the shooting).

Model 1&2 are in range to shoot all enemy models, but models 3,4,5 are only in range to shoot C,D,E.

This rule prevents somebody from saying "the hits from model 1 & 2 are taken by models C & D and they are removed as casualties. Models 3,4,5 only have model E in range, so 2 of their shots are now useless even though all 5 enemy models used to be in range.

This rule makes sure that models (not units) that were in range cannot be taken out of range by judicious wound allocation and casualty removal. Nothing in that rule indicates to me that models that were never in range to begin with suddenly get to be hit by wounds that they were never legal targets for simply because a unit achieved to overkill.

The "model" they are talking about throughout the entire paragraph is the shooting model, not the target.

The "enemy" being referred to is any enemy that you are targeting.

Unless you declare that you are focus firing, it is assumed that you are shooting at the entire unit, not just certain models.

Since shooting attacks are targeted on units, and not models, as long as you are considered to be "in range", you are in range of the unit.

I stand corrected.

If I have 7 enemy units, and I wound 10 times, and an IC is out front with it's own armor value, and passes the first armor save. Does that character have to keep taking armor saves as it is the closest model still?

sfshilo wrote:If I have 7 enemy units, and I wound 10 times, and an IC is out front with it's own armor value, and passes the first armor save. Does that character have to keep taking armor saves as it is the closest model still?

Yes. The closest model is allocated wounds until there are no more wounds left, or it dies.

damn......

One of the more stupid and asinine rules in 6th ED.

Oh yea this is infantry shooty hammer now *sarcasm off*

Ahhh, I get it now. I was confused about Nosferatu's post, but I understand now. Aside from how wounds are allocated (closest model first), this seems to be very similar to 5E. My shooting models must each, individually, be within range of ONE enemy model in order to shoot the unit that this enemy model belongs to. If my models are within range of ONE enemy model, then they can shoot at the ENTIRE enemy UNIT.

Then, when wounds are scored, they are allocated according to the new rule of "closest model first."

Correct?

Yes.

Word.