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Does this make it a flying monstrous creature?

I would think it would from a technical standpoint.

Covered in the new FAQ. It is a Jump Monstrous Creature.

So its exactly as before basically?

Basically, yes.

It also gets the extra attack at initiative 10 for being jump type

As much as I wish a TeleDreadknight could Vector Strike like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7lpQFHpSPk

...He's just a Jump Monstrous Creature per the FAQ.

Voodoo wrote:It also gets the extra attack at initiative 10 for being jump type

actually he gets this for being a mc. They have the hammer of wrath special rule too.

Huh? Hammer of Wrath is what gives you the I10 attack. Being an MC you get Smash, which is AP2 on all weapons.

A dreadknights doom fists now give the x2 str and ap 2 since the description for dreadnought close combat weapons no longer say only walkers get the benefit

nosferatu1001 wrote:Huh? Hammer of Wrath is what gives you the I10 attack. Being an MC you get Smash, which is AP2 on all weapons.

MC rules give smash and hammer of wrath. They also have Fear so in assault the enemy can be reduced to WS1 if they fail a test.

Basically if you take the teleporter or not you still have the hammer of wrath special rule and therefore still get the free I10 attack.

sorry for double post

CrashCanuck wrote:A dreadknights doom fists now give the x2 str and ap 2 since the description for dreadnought close combat weapons no longer say only walkers get the benefit

That's clearly a mistake since it makes the hammer a useless upgrade. It would actually be worse to buy the hammer and lose the extra attack.

No, hammers have Concussive, DCCWs don't. Clearly a difference

So yeah, the hammer is pretty much useless.

Arent they both specialist weapons, meaning with one of each you would still get the attack?

The DCCW is not actually a specialist weapon, its type is simply melee.

In which case you do miss the extra attack, so for 10 points to gain concussive I wouldnt bother.

Grey Templar wrote:No, hammers have Concussive, DCCWs don't. Clearly a difference

So yeah, the hammer is pretty much useless.

So is Hammerhand for a Dreadknight. And the Greatsword. Why bother spending more points when the DK gets 4 S10 attacks at Initiative 4, 5 on the charge?

Joe Mama wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:No, hammers have Concussive, DCCWs don't. Clearly a difference

So yeah, the hammer is pretty much useless.

So is Hammerhand for a Dreadknight. And the Greatsword. Why bother spending more points when the DK gets 4 S10 attacks at Initiative 4, 5 on the charge?

Thought the Dreadknight was only S6 though?
same ole applies now eh? DCCW doesnt boost a MC's str?

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Joe Mama wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:No, hammers have Concussive, DCCWs don't. Clearly a difference

So yeah, the hammer is pretty much useless.

So is Hammerhand for a Dreadknight. And the Greatsword. Why bother spending more points when the DK gets 4 S10 attacks at Initiative 4, 5 on the charge?

Thought the Dreadknight was only S6 though?
same ole applies now eh? DCCW doesnt boost a MC's str?

As stated by Crash Canuk(and the Rule Book); DCCWs are merely Melee weapons and x2S is their Profile; so any model using a DCCW in CC, strikes at Init, with x2S and AP2

LOL. If that's the case that's a huge gianormous upgrade for the DK dude. Looks like I am going to be fielding him a lot more often.

The sword DOES let you reroll hits and AP, which against vehicles and losing the 2D6 AP is a good thing.

But a DK is only Str6 with a Greatsword as opposed to Str10 with Doomfists. And it only rolls 1D6 for armor penetration now.

Grey Templar wrote:But a DK is only Str6 with a Greatsword as opposed to Str10 with Doomfists. And it only rolls 1D6 for armor penetration now.

Someone good in maths needs to crunch the numbers.

S6, well usually S7 (from Hammerhand) attacks, 4 of them with rerolls against some lightly armored transport, versus 5 S10 attacks. I don't think we need to bother with the crunching, fists are going to destroy AV10 + AV11. But someone smarter than me should run the numbers anyway.


For high AV, the sword wielding DK would have to use the Smash Attack. So 2 S10 attacks with rerolls to hit and wound, 2d6 pen, versus 5 S10 attacks, no rerolls, 1d6 pen. Which way wins?

Joe Mama wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:But a DK is only Str6 with a Greatsword as opposed to Str10 with Doomfists. And it only rolls 1D6 for armor penetration now.

Someone good in maths needs to crunch the numbers.

S6, well usually S7 (from Hammerhand) attacks, 4 of them with rerolls against some lightly armored transport, versus 5 S10 attacks. I don't think we need to bother with the crunching, fists are going to destroy AV10 + AV11. But someone smarter than me should run the numbers anyway.

S10 will auto-glance lightly armored transports, so you have 5*(2/3) = 3.3 glances. S7 you have 4*(2/3)*(2/3 + 1/3*2/3) = 2.3 glances. This assumes the vehicle moved...

Joe Mama wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:But a DK is only Str6 with a Greatsword as opposed to Str10 with Doomfists. And it only rolls 1D6 for armor penetration now.

Someone good in maths needs to crunch the numbers.

S6, well usually S7 (from Hammerhand) attacks, 4 of them with rerolls against some lightly armored transport, versus 5 S10 attacks. I don't think we need to bother with the crunching, fists are going to destroy AV10 + AV11. But someone smarter than me should run the numbers anyway.


For high AV, the sword wielding DK would have to use the Smash Attack. So 2 S10 attacks with rerolls to hit and wound, 2d6 pen, versus 5 S10 attacks, no rerolls, 1d6 pen. Which way wins?

Here's the math against moving (3+) AV13/14:

EDIT: Fixed for correct rules.
AV14:
Sword: 2 attacks * (88%) to hit with rerolls * (75%) to inflict damage with S10+D6, rerolling = 1.333 damaging hits (including glances)
Fist: 5 attacks * (66%) to hit * (50%) to inflict damage with S10+D6 = 1.667 damaging hits (including glances)

AV13:
Sword: 2 attacks * (88%) to hit with rerolls * (88%) to inflict damage with S10+2D6, rerolling = 1.580 damaging hits (including glances)
Fist: 5 attacks * (66%) to hit * (66%) to inflict damage with S10+D6 = 2.22 damaging hits (including glances)

The fists are clearly a superior option unless you want additional anti-infantry power.

Smash doesn't roll 2D6, it rerolls the Armor Penetration result. So the Sword only benifits the To Hit roll of a Smash Attack.

Either way it is close enough that the free option, the fists, is the much better deal.

Grey Templar wrote:Smash doesn't roll 2D6, it rerolls the damage result. So the Sword only benifits the To Hit roll of a Smash Attack.

In that case, the fists are a superior option against all forms of armor. You would only take a sword if you wanted anti-infantry power then.