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Hey guys, recently I decided that Vampire Counts would be my next army. That said I would like to build this army very well in my head before I start purchasing models. The fact that I do not have the VC book is a down side (already bought it, its being shipped to me to Afghanistan, but takes a while). So I come to you guys for some insight, help and suggestions.

I would like to start with Core choices, as they are a) limited in number and b) a very important part of any army. With that in mind could you please give me your opinion on them? From looking at Army builder this is kinda what I thought about them:

Skeletons: with access to hw/shield they are I "believe" the most durable, since they have an armor save and a 6++ parry. They will still die in droves, but I "believe" they are the easiest to resurrect. Seem cheap for what you get, but I might be wrong.

Zombies: Cheapest option, so will be quite a bit more numerable than both Skeletons and Ghouls. However have abysmal stats and will die the fastest out of all core troops. Easy-ish to resurrect (I am still not sure how their magic works ). Mainly used as a endless tarpit, but not as durable as Skeletons.

Ghouls: They are quite a bit more expensive than the other options, however they do have an improved statline, double the attacks and poison. If anything in the core of this army is able to kill something it will be them. However I do not believe that the core for the VC army should be doing much killing.

Hounds: I believe should be used more as diverters.

Do I have something wrong in my initial assessment?

I would also like to point out that I am wanting to do a themed army, but without being able to read the book just yet I am not sure which theme to go for as I do not know any of their fluff.

Thanks for your thoughts and help.

Grix.

Skellies probably are the most durable (T4 ghouls are nice too though) and hand weapon and shield are a must (unless you're building your list around a mortis engine since the regen replaces the parry).
Zombies are your easiest to resurrect, not skellies. Your rez spell does 1d6+caster level and you normally cannot raise the unit beyond starting size, zombies however get 2d6+ caster lvl and can be raised beyond starting size by anyone, skellies can be raised beyond starting by a necromancer who has master of the dead (1 per army but can be on a lvl 4).
Ghouls.. some people love them because they are the only core able to do any damage while some people hate them because they are too expensive for core and relying on core to do things other than hold the enemy in place or die.
Hounds, yea pretty much, they won't really do anything in combat but that they can redirect and such.

Wow an average of 10-11 zombies per turn (if the spell goes off) with a lv 4. Even if Skeletons are more durable, and ghouls more killy not to mention the fact that zombies will die faster than anyone. Just from a tarpit stand point what would make someone take the other options?

Well, to start with you have to look at the costs.

You get two Skeletons for the price of one Ghoul.
You get five Zombies for the price of three Skeletons.

Then you have to look at natural abilities.
Zombies are burdened with WS 1, ASL, and no saves, which balances out their ability to gain models quickly.

Skeletons have light armour and shields, so they usually have a 5+/6++ in combat unless you sacrifice parry for spears. One Necro in your list can bring these above starting size; an upgrade which costs 4 Skeletons itself (usually worth it if you can afford it). You opponent will quickly learn which Necro to dispel.

Ghouls have T4 and Poison but no saves. They also have WS/I that are two points higher than Zombies and one point higher than Skeletons.

Each has a different role. Zombies work well as tarpits in most cases, but don't count on them killing much. Skeletons act as a decent anvil provided you have enough of them. They can also put out a surprising amount of attacks if you give them spears and take a horde of 40 or more. Ghouls are a hammer unit and work best in a horde, particularly when buffed by Vanhel's for the rerolls to hit (Poison!).

Hounds are definitely a diverter and can be used as early drops during deployment, but can also hunt Warmachines well due to vanguard and their high speed. They're more costly individually than skeletons and zombies, but a minimum unit of these is our cheapest core choice.

In general, you'll probably want to go with a bare minimum of 25% core.

The book is rather useful if you can fit it in the list.

If doing a ghoul horde, how many would you recommend for that horde, 30 minimum or 40 to soak wounds?

40 if you can afford it.
30 not only cannot soak as many wounds, but your opponent is also immediately able to dig into your fighting ranks.

I preffer my skellies with spears to get as many attacks in as i can. every casualty on my side is unimportant since i will raise more and more anyways. ( always take master of the dead ) But every casualty on the enemy side is a setback that, in time will start to matter a lot.

Zombies have no command... that could affect your combat resolution

I've never given Zombies a look in since for me it was always about Ghouls versus Skeletons.

I read on Arioch's blog (very good for VC tips) that Corpse Carts will give rerolls against units whose weapon skill is lower than what they're fighting. This can make Ghouls a good situational choice perhaps as rerolls on poison is funny.
http://arioch.hubpages.com/hub/Warhammer-8th-edition-Vampire-Counts-Skeleton-Warriors-overview

Having said that, Skeletons seem the most flexible option. I never thought about the possibility of overriding their parry save with a mortis engine though! But I think that'd only be useful with ghouls really...

So, after looking at the book which I finally got mailed too me out here in the sandbox. I have decided that I will mainly stick with Skeleton warriors for core. I really see no reason (at this time at least for me) to look at ghouls or zombies.

Being that the Skeleton Warriors will be my anvil and bunker I will more than likely want two units of them, one obviously bigger to tarpit and one as a growing bunker.

The next thing I want to focus on is a pretty good hammer. I was looking at Graveguard as a safe bet, but I also really like the look and feel of the cavalry options.

Any input on those would be very greatly appreciated.

Thanks

I personally love zombies. At 3 points per model I usually take 2 units of 50 with a unit of 50 skelles and 2 units of dire wolves. This usually adds up to 3 tarpits and 2 warmachine hunter units. This allows me to look towards my special and rares as straight killing units.

The main problem with vc is most of our core does the same job. And if it doesn't do that job, we have rares/specials that do them better.

Only reason I take 2 dire wolves units is because it's cheaper than vargulfs/ghiests/hexwraiths. Even though they don't do the job nearly as good, they're sufficient enough to tie them up til my killing units get into position.

Black Knights can be nice but you will probably want to put a Wight King with them for extra oomph. A block of 30-40 Grave Guard will eat almost anything it touches.

Rivet wrote:Black Knights can be nice but you will probably want to put a Wight King with them for extra oomph. A block of 30-40 Grave Guard will eat almost anything it touches.

Well, at this time I am thinking of is the following:

Lv3 Necro
Combat built Vamp Lord on a mount (in with black knights)

Baby Combat Vamp w/Blood Knights
Wight King BSB w/Black Knights bus

Small bunker of skeletons
Large tarpit of skeletons
(Hounds if needed to fill out core)

10-12 Black Knight Bus
2x3 or 3x2 units of Bat Swarms

4-5 Blood Knights

Maybe a Coven Throne or Mortis Engine

The idea behind this is basically a fast moving hard hitting Vamp list with lots of Knights.

Would this work?

Could work... You would need to play with it some and that is a huge point sink all going into the black knights. Not sure how well the batswarms will do.

I'm not too fond of batswarms. I'd rather have spirit hosts in small units. Charge them into enemies small units, win by default!

you guys might be right. I am just looking at the very beginnings of what I would find interesting in running as my Vampire Counts. It just seems like having the ability to give ASL upon request would be pretty cool.

What do normal Cavalry VC armies look like?