Anti aircraft shooting?

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**bieren**

You realy need anti aircraft to shoot plains?
Or can any thing hit plains?

And if it only can be anti aircraft whitch is it from eldar to shoot the damn things out of the air?

**Jidmah**

Anything hits flyers on a 6+. Any rerolls (twin-linked) apply to that. Just pick a weapon with decent strength and more than two shots, and you will find any fliers being far from invincible.

**Mike712**

Jidmah wrote:Anything hits flyers on a 6+. Any rerolls (twin-linked) apply to that. Just pick a weapon with decent strength and more than two shots, and you will find any fliers being far from invincible.

Basically anything flying will be the new meta in 6th, at least until skyfire units become more readily available to most armies.

**bieren**

Ok cool m grot er plays ig whit 3 flyers :p

And i gonne start eldar whit telepath powers

**Jidmah**

Mike712 wrote:
Jidmah wrote:Anything hits flyers on a 6+. Any rerolls (twin-linked) apply to that. Just pick a weapon with decent strength and more than two shots, and you will find any fliers being far from invincible.

Basically anything flying will be the new meta in 6th, at least until skyfire units become more readily available to most armies.

I heavily doubt that. A landraider crusader will easily blast any ork plane out of the sky, a rifleman dreadnoughts (not just the GK ones) will kill anything flying. Scatter-lasers, multi-lasers, assault cannons, psybolters, heck, even most plasma guns will be able to shoot fliers down.

Do you guys really need orks to teach you how to shoot?

**Mike712**

Jidmah wrote:
Mike712 wrote:
Jidmah wrote:Anything hits flyers on a 6+. Any rerolls (twin-linked) apply to that. Just pick a weapon with decent strength and more than two shots, and you will find any fliers being far from invincible.

Basically anything flying will be the new meta in 6th, at least until skyfire units become more readily available to most armies.

I heavily doubt that. A landraider crusader will easily blast any ork plane out of the sky, a rifleman dreadnoughts (not just the GK ones) will kill anything flying. Scatter-lasers, multi-lasers, assault cannons, psybolters, heck, even most plasma guns will be able to shoot fliers down.

Do you guys really need orks to teach you how to shoot?

Orks don't suffer too much due to having high volumes of fire and low BS alreadly, elite armies that have a low volume of shooting attacks and genrally rely on their high BS to hit stuff will.

Sure glancing ork/DE flyers to death with massed low/med strength fire won't be too much of an issue, but when you're shooting at valks or doom/night sythes/storm ravens/talons you just won't have the volume of heavier fire needed to down them en masse(as they will be spammed especially by crons and IG) needing 6s to hit then 5s and 6s just to remove a hull point.

**Crazyterran**

Most Flyers are AV11, so, if you really want to bring that down (Death Scythes especially, with their doom rays), simply throw everything S5 and above at it.

**Sigvatr**

Anything Twin-Linked with S5+ gets those eagles down.

**Jidmah**

Mike712 wrote:elite armies that have a low volume of shooting attacks and genrally rely on their high BS to hit stuff will.

All elite armies have weapons with high volumes of shooting. If you don't pick them, that's your fault.

**Mike712**

Jidmah wrote:
Mike712 wrote:elite armies that have a low volume of shooting attacks and genrally rely on their high BS to hit stuff will.

All elite armies have weapons with high volumes of shooting. If you don't pick them, that's your fault.

Obviously they have limited numbers of those weapons with high volumes of fire due to the nature of being an elite army, resulting in a low overall volume of fire, heavy bolters, not good enough in the numbers you can get, somewhere on another thread it was said that 5 HBs will cause .41 glances and .41 pens against an AV 10 flier, how many heavy bolters do you think it's going to take to handle 6-10 or more doom/night scythes with any real effect. I put assault cannons on my razorbacks for versatility, they're simply going to get taken out by any flyers before they have a chance to do anything. At ~2000 pts I take 2-3 TL AC razors and possibly 10 TAC terminators with 2 ACs which is allot of points at that level, how do you think that is going to fare against a flyer spam list. Changing my army to include AC spam would involve buying allot of new models at which point I may as well buy into flyers myself, an issue as I like neither the storm raven or talon models and taking allies is not something entirely possible at the points levels usually played at my local GW.

Until Flakk missiles become readily available to all armies flyers are going to be the new meta, I played games at my local games workshop using something similar to 6th edition flyer rules as an ongoing preview of flyers, they are a pain in the behind to kill, and any kiddie will 10 flyers will table you in a few turns if you don't add flyers for your own army.

So at this point I will simply decline games from people who use flyer spam in their list until the point where skyfire becomes more common.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mike712 wrote:
Jidmah wrote:
Mike712 wrote:elite armies that have a low volume of shooting attacks and genrally rely on their high BS to hit stuff will.

All elite armies have weapons with high volumes of shooting. If you don't pick them, that's your fault.

Obviously they have limited numbers of those weapons with high volumes of fire due to the nature of being an elite army, resulting in a low overall volume of fire, heavy bolters, not good enough in the numbers you can get, somewhere on another thread it was said that 5 HBs will cause .41 glances and .41 pens against an AV 10 flier, how many heavy bolters do you think it's going to take to handle 6-10 or more doom/night scythes with any real effect. I put assault cannons on my razorbacks for versatility, they're simply going to get taken out by any flyers before they have a chance to do anything. At ~2000 pts I take 2-3 TL AC razors and possibly 10 TAC terminators with 2 ACs which is allot of points at that level, how do you think that is going to fare against a flyer spam list. Changing my army to include AC spam would involve buying allot of new models at which point I may as well buy into flyers myself, an issue as I like neither the storm raven or talon models and taking allies is not something entirely possible at the points levels usually played at my local GW.

It's not necessarily simply flyers that are broken as hell, rather it's relatively cheap flyers that can come in platoons or be taken as dedicated transport that are; and the fact that they have no counter other than flyers. At lest with the 5th ed. mech spam almost all armies had access to a wide array of anti armour options already available to them from previous editions.

Until Flakk missiles become readily available to all armies, flyers are going to be the new meta, I played games at my local games workshop using something similar to 6th edition flyer rules as an ongoing preview of flyers, they are a pain in the behind to kill, and any kiddie will 10 flyers will table you in a few turns if you don't add flyers for your own army.

So at this point I will simply decline games from people who use flyer spam in their list until the point where skyfire becomes more common.

**Jidmah**

You should refuse games against AV14 vehicles until melta becomes more common then, too.

Besides, most armies can't field that many fliers.
Necrons get 12, nine of those armed with nothing but glorified heavy bolters. Minimum cost: 2190 points, with all minimal(=useless) units, no council etc.

The IG can field 9, with 900 points minimum for just valkyries, not vendettas - not including troops, HQ or similar.

All other armies can take a maximum of 3 fliers - if you can't handle three AV12 vehicles just because they are getting hit on sixes, you should relly work on your list building and generalship.

**Praxiss**

I'm not looking forward to Flyer Spam either. I plan to have 2 at most. Flyer loko really good at first glance but remember that they take a couple of tunrs to et into position.

A DoomScythe (with the S10 AP! death ray) adn move a minimum of 18" but only turn 90 degrees. so it coudl take 2 turns to setup for that lovely strafing run, and that will only make a huuge difference if you arrange your army ina nice sttraight line for it to carve up.

So the fast Flyers will get decent shooting runs 2 or maybe 3 times per game.

The Space marines ones can shoot more reliably (Hover mode) but if they do that they become Fast Skimmer and you can shoto them at normal BS.

**Sigvatr**

Exactly. I will get 2 Doomscythes because I like the idea of 2 flyers preparing the battlefield for my troops...and they'll certainly help softening stuff up!

**KingCracker**

I too am planning on 2 dakkajets for my boyz. Not to mention, Im building a Flakktrukk (IA) as well so fliers really wont be a problem for me

**Praxiss**

Im ging to build 1 as a Nightsythe and will probably magnetise the other.

i like my Anni barges too much too sacrifice the HS slots.