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New rules brings up be issues and plentyt of rules that are not yet understood. Looking for thoughts on what happens to a chariot that is wrecked by over watch fire during an assault move. My gut is that it is wrecked in its position pre-move as the over watch fire happens before the move, but is seems like a very specific issue that only applies to chariots and walkers, but nothing disembarks from a walker.

BTW, loving my Flamers of Tzeentch for overwatch. D3auto hits, wounding/glancing on 4+ without worrying about being able to use the template. The entire squad hits! Then gets charged by wraiths and it lights out Flamers...

Yeah....Is it the Character or the Chariot that is charging? Coz in CC any hits are resolved against the character.....so wouldn't the overwatch shots be against the character as well?

The chariot is charging, and until you get to CC you dont get to hit the embarked character, so overwatch fire would be resolved against the chariot.

You fire immediately, before it moves. You fire even if it cannot reach you, remember

Nosferatu has hit the nail on the head, there's really no gray area here, you fire before it charges, so you wreck it where it is before it charges, and you only are firing at the vehicle, not the embarked unit.

O, makes sense. Been trygin to rerad through the rulebook but it's going to take a while to pick up all the nuances i think.

Got my first game tonight with it as well!

So if the barge gets wrecked, does the character still charge in (assuming he rolled well enough to make the distance?).


Chariot declares charge - roll 2D6 (makes the required roll)
unit Overwatches - wrecks chariot


Ah....it would be an emergency Disembark - and you cab't charge after disembarking...i think that's how it would work.

Good luck wrecking a barge since you can symbiotically repair hull points now.

And without a psyker allowing full bs for overwatch the probability of stripping hull points is low. Anything with the volume of fire to consistantly make it past hitting on a 6 can't scratch AV 13, unless it's gauss. Not to mention the Jink save.

So for the CCB you're talking a really low probability scenario.

Ah....it would be an emergency Disembark - and you cab't charge after disembarking...i think that's how it would work.

It's open topped.

oh yeah.....

i suppose you coudl get in a lucky snap shot with a Lascannon...they can fire in overwatch can't they? Or an Assault Cannon (assumign you're charging terminators - which is an option with an AP1 warscythe)

That brings an interesting question I don't remember answered in the rulebook (maybe it is and I'm just tired)... do meltaguns get 2d6 armour pen against charging chariots?

Posting from work without the rulebook, so rules are paraphrased from memory and page numbers are not available, yet I have read the sections several times, in regards to close combat with Chariots. One poster said all attacks are resovled against the character and I cannot seem to back that up with rules.

Chariot section under Vechiles, chariots can assault and every model in base contact with the hull of the chariot is considered in base contact with the rider.
Close combat section - wounds must be allocated first to models in base to base.

Using those two rules I can understand the claim that riders must be attacked, however:

Any model in base to base with the hull of the chariot is in base to base with the rider, thus models are now in base to base with two units, the chariot and the rider as since the rider can disembark, he is a seperate unit, albiet currently co-existing with the chariot itself.

Rules for multiple combats in the close combat section - if a model is in base to base with models from two seperate units, they may choose which unit they attack.

So I would assume then I have the choice to attack the rider fighing his weapon skill, or attacking the chariot, using 0 WS (if it didn't move) or 1 WS (if it moved).

Furthermore, fighing vehicels in close combat section - all hits against vehicles are resolved using the vehicles rear armor. And there is no rule in the chariot section which superceedes that (as it does in the walkers section).

So I am of the opinion if I am assaulted by a chariot I can choose which to attack, the character rider, or the chariot itself as with rules for multiple combats, and striking the chariot in its rear armor.

Not sure what to do if the chariot is wrecked/exploded with the character though, emergency disembark yes, take wounds from explosion, yes, but is he locked in combat? Must pilein 3'' at his initive step (if he has yet to attack), my attackers wouild pile-in at their Init step?

Thoughts, comments, clarifications?

Tarrasq wrote:Good luck wrecking a barge since you can symbiotically repair hull points now.

And without a psyker allowing full bs for overwatch the probability of stripping hull points is low. Anything with the volume of fire to consistantly make it past hitting on a 6 can't scratch AV 13, unless it's gauss. Not to mention the Jink save.

So for the CCB you're talking a really low probability scenario.

I hope you read my OP, since I was talking about a specific scenario, albeit a rare one.

1. Flamer of Tzeentch auto hits D3 times on overwatch (template weapon which can overwatch but not snapshot).
2. Flamer of Tzeentch glances on 4+

Does a junk save apply? Can you charge into combat in a scenario where you would get a junk save?

Even so, it it very possible to wreck the barge. And yes, I agree it should have wrecked before attempting the assault.

If you charge into Cc with a Chariot you only attack the rider, not the chariot itself (in CC anyway).

As far as I'm aware you can't choose which one to attack and it doesn't count as a multi-charge.


In shooting you always shoot the Chariot, not the rider, in CC you hit the rider, not the Chariot.

Praxiss wrote:...in CC you hit the rider, not the Chariot.

Where is that indicated in the rulebook? As far as I can see, the chariot works like any other vehicle in close combat (besides the fact that the character can fight from it), and can be targeted by b2b models accordingly.

jms40k wrote:

Praxiss wrote:...in CC you hit the rider, not the Chariot.

Where is that indicated in the rulebook? As far as I can see, the chariot works like any other vehicle in close combat (besides the fact that the character can fight from it), and can be targeted by b2b models accordingly.

Nope, you're right. I was looking at the Shooting rules and making an assumption. my bad.

So i supposed in CC you would need to allocate which hits are against the chariot and whcih are against the rider. from the CCBs point of view then you best do a sweep and hope for precision hits to take out that nasty Chainfist/powerfist/poweraxe before you charge in.

Praxiss wrote:

jms40k wrote:

Praxiss wrote:...in CC you hit the rider, not the Chariot.

Where is that indicated in the rulebook? As far as I can see, the chariot works like any other vehicle in close combat (besides the fact that the character can fight from it), and can be targeted by b2b models accordingly.

Nope, you're right. I was looking at the Shooting rules and making an assumption. my bad.

So i supposed in CC you would need to allocate which hits are against the chariot and whcih are against the rider. from the CCBs point of view then you best do a sweep and hope for precision hits to take out that nasty Chainfist/powerfist/poweraxe before you charge in.

There is a discrepancy in the rules though:

"... a Chariot cannot strike blows in close combat..."

"..the Chariot itself has the Hammer of Wrath special rule..."

that'll be in there for "cinematic purposes" i suppose.

I still want to know if a melta does 2d6" armour pen on a charging chariot. I feel its a grey-area since Template overwatch rules say to not worry about measuring distance or template hits due to charging assumptions...

I suppose it depends on when Overwatch is done. Is it done as soon as the charge is annouce or when it reaches the unit?

if it si the former you will have to measure the distance asa melta only get 2D6 athalf range.

Praxiss wrote:I suppose it depends on when Overwatch is done. Is it done as soon as the charge is annouce or when it reaches the unit?

if it si the former you will have to measure the distance asa melta only get 2D6 athalf range.

I understand that and its how I would likely play it, but... Templates explicitly don't do that. They explicitly tell you to ignore all the measuring stuff and just assume that charging units that fail to reach would have been turned back by the flames or what-have- you.

But meltas and template weapons are 2 different things. Templates are specifically noted as doing D3 auto-hits rather than using the template.

You would also need to measure to see if your Rapid Fire gusn coudl hoot at the Chariot once or twice (althoguh considerign it is a 12" charge range you will get raid fire 99.9% of the time)

Praxiss wrote:But meltas and template weapons are 2 different things. Templates are specifically noted as doing D3 auto-hits rather than using the template.

You would also need to measure to see if your Rapid Fire gusn coudl hoot at the Chariot once or twice (althoguh considerign it is a 12" charge range you will get raid fire 99.9% of the time)

Yep, I'm with ya, but it'd be nice to have that extra deterrent for my sister squads against a CCB

You overwatch before moving, because if you are out of range for the charge you still get to overwatch against them