6th edition - 10 minor questions

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**Blackgaze**

Hi, I finally got done with reading the rulebook and while I'm confident with playing it, there were a few things I wasn't too clear on/easy to read.
I've check through the last few "You make Da Call" Pages and most questions seem to be army related, so sorry if these have been brought up before:

1. Although this is mentioned in the FAQs, where are the race Psyker power listings in the rulebook (who can take of the five), please don't tell me this is white dwarf only.

2. Flying Monstrous Creatures. Do they need a flying skimmer base? My Flying Hive Tyrant is on the ground (older model, not new kit), can it still be used this way?

3. It was talked a lot that the Rulebook Psyker powers must replace the codex powers if you choose to roll off from them, but I can't see where this is said in the rulebook. Must I replace every power from the codex, or can I replace a fixed number?

4. I believe the 5th edition rulebook had the rules for "randomise" models too, but for some reason I never used this and neither did my opponents, as we just picked the models ourselves. If I had to "randomise" a model out of... let's say 23 models (an ork squad etc) this would slow the game down to a halt while we calculate the odds, rather than just picking a model. Am I reading this correctly, does random mean like a dice random, or a player choice?

5. Deployment type #3, Vanguard Strike. I'm a bit confused how to calculate this in a game, I understand deploying "12 away from the enemy, but I don't know where to start with the triangle lines. Can someone assist with an answer?
I never liked spearhooks games in 5th, but at least the deployment was easy and understandable ("12 away from middle, inbetween deployments)

6. Mysterious forest/river, does every forest/river have to use these rules? Of course I could always agree with the player to use them, but I like to know if I could in general. When I first heard about mysterious terrain, I thought it sounded like a great idea for a rare terrain chance, but unless I was misreading this was EVERY fething forest/river placed, this would be annoying to keep track (such as forest maps).
Same goes for mysterious objectives. Most of the 6 missions uses these rules, how annoying would it be that a game gets ruined because the winning objective was sabotaged? I love randomising, but this is too much and ruins the fun.

7. I noticed the Imperial Guard Multilaser is AP- instead of AP6, there's a whole appendix for this. But has someone noted every new chance somewhere? I don't want to look through 5-6 pages of these trying to find a different number, even more so at codexes I don't play.

8. Just a curious question. What could form of a "Salvo" weapon if it was handheld/two handed? I'm trying to think of a good example for a small weapon using this rule.

9. Although Imperial Guard Techpriests/Missionaries can't be warlords, they can still be a Allied choice for a HQ, right?

10. Although some of the rulebook powers are useful, the random pickings of them could certainly be useful or useless in the right list. Do you think competitive players will take this chance when choosing a chart?

**jms40k**

Blackgaze wrote:Hi, I finally got done with reading the rulebook and while I'm confident with playing it, there were a few things I wasn't too clear on/easy to read.
I've check through the last few "You make Da Call" Pages and most questions seem to be army related, so sorry if these have been brought up before:

1. Although this is mentioned in the FAQs, where are the race Psyker power listings in the rulebook (who can take of the five), please don't tell me this is white dwarf only.
The FAQs mention this. It is presumed that it will be mentioned in future codexes as well.

2. Flying Monstrous Creatures. Do they need a flying skimmer base? My Flying Hive Tyrant is on the ground (older model, not new kit), can it still be used this way?
There is no standard here, the only guide is that the model must be on the base it was provided with. So I'd think you're good to go. You might want to check with a TO if necessary to make sure any LOS issues are covered.

3. It was talked a lot that the Rulebook Psyker powers must replace the codex powers if you choose to roll off from them, but I can't see where this is said in the rulebook. Must I replace every power from the codex, or can I replace a fixed number?

4. I believe the 5th edition rulebook had the rules for "randomise" models too, but for some reason I never used this and neither did my opponents, as we just picked the models ourselves. If I had to "randomise" a model out of... let's say 23 models (an ork squad etc) this would slow the game down to a halt while we calculate the odds, rather than just picking a model. Am I reading this correctly, does random mean like a dice random, or a player choice?
Random means a dice roll. It is really up to you and your opponent how you do this, but you can always just bring a bigger die Most of the time it won't really be an issue. If you need to randomise closest model and they are all ork boys for instance.

5. Deployment type #3, Vanguard Strike. I'm a bit confused how to calculate this in a game, I understand deploying "12 away from the enemy, but I don't know where to start with the triangle lines. Can someone assist with an answer?
I never liked spearhooks games in 5th, but at least the deployment was easy and understandable ("12 away from middle, inbetween deployments)
Draw a line from corner-to-corner then measure 12" parallel to this line on either side. That area is no-man's land and you each deploy in one of the corners.

6. Mysterious forest/river, does every forest/river have to use these rules? Of course I could always agree with the player to use them, but I like to know if I could in general. When I first heard about mysterious terrain, I thought it sounded like a great idea for a rare terrain chance, but unless I was misreading this was EVERY fething forest/river placed, this would be annoying to keep track (such as forest maps).
Same goes for mysterious objectives. Most of the 6 missions uses these rules, how annoying would it be that a game gets ruined because the winning objective was sabotaged? I love randomising, but this is too much and ruins the fun.
As always and as the rulebook indicates, talk to your opponent and agree before hand.

7. I noticed the Imperial Guard Multilaser is AP- instead of AP6, there's a whole appendix for this. But has someone noted every new chance somewhere? I don't want to look through 5-6 pages of these trying to find a different number, even more so at codexes I don't play.
This may be an error in the rulebook as it isn't mentioned in the IG FAQ, I'd go with the codex values if there is a non-mentioned conflict according to the rules on page 7.

8. Just a curious question. What could form of a "Salvo" weapon if it was handheld/two handed? I'm trying to think of a good example for a small weapon using this rule.

9. Although Imperial Guard Techpriests/Missionaries can't be warlords, they can still be a Allied choice for a HQ, right?
Probably not due to their FAQ entry, it is not quite clear.

10. Although some of the rulebook powers are useful, the random pickings of them could certainly be useful or useless in the right list. Do you think competitive players will take this chance when choosing a chart?
I think this will be more up to the TO than anything else in competitive play.

**yakface**

Blackgaze wrote:1. Although this is mentioned in the FAQs, where are the race Psyker power listings in the rulebook (who can take of the five), please don't tell me this is white dwarf only.

Its included in the Psychic Power Card pack as well, but not in the rulebook to my knowledge.

You can find a pic of it here though:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/456706.page

2. Flying Monstrous Creatures. Do they need a flying skimmer base? My Flying Hive Tyrant is on the ground (older model, not new kit), can it still be used this way?

Its the same old 'modeling for advantage' question. The best way to play IMHO is simply to always give your opponent the benefit of the doubt as to whether he can see the model or not or whether the Tyrant is in cover or not. You should try to get a good look at the official Tyrant model and when in doubt do your best to pretend that's he model you have on the table. The more gracious you are about this issue, the less problems with opponents you'll ever have...in other words, bring it up before each game and make sure your opponent and you are on the same page.

3. It was talked a lot that the Rulebook Psyker powers must replace the codex powers if you choose to roll off from them, but I can't see where this is said in the rulebook. Must I replace every power from the codex, or can I replace a fixed number?

Yeah, I'm not seeing that in the rulebook either actually.

4. I believe the 5th edition rulebook had the rules for "randomise" models too, but for some reason I never used this and neither did my opponents, as we just picked the models ourselves. If I had to "randomise" a model out of... let's say 23 models (an ork squad etc) this would slow the game down to a halt while we calculate the odds, rather than just picking a model. Am I reading this correctly, does random mean like a dice random, or a player choice?

Nope, 5th edition did not have any official 'randomizing' rules, but 6th does on page 5. That's the rule you should use unless you've got a better method (like a smart phone with a random number generator on it).

5. Deployment type #3, Vanguard Strike. I'm a bit confused how to calculate this in a game, I understand deploying "12 away from the enemy, but I don't know where to start with the triangle lines. Can someone assist with an answer?
I never liked spearhooks games in 5th, but at least the deployment was easy and understandable ("12 away from middle, inbetween deployments)

Its just 12" up both sides of one corner (on opposite sides), exactly as in the diagram. So in other words, you pick one of the 'off' corners (that is not either players' deployment zone) and you measure up 12" each way off that corner and mark those spots with a die. Then you do the same on the other 'off' corner and it should be pretty obvious from there!

6. Mysterious forest/river, does every forest/river have to use these rules? Of course I could always agree with the player to use them, but I like to know if I could in general. When I first heard about mysterious terrain, I thought it sounded like a great idea for a rare terrain chance, but unless I was misreading this was EVERY fething forest/river placed, this would be annoying to keep track (such as forest maps).
Same goes for mysterious objectives. Most of the 6 missions uses these rules, how annoying would it be that a game gets ruined because the winning objective was sabotaged? I love randomising, but this is too much and ruins the fun.

Its yours and your opponent's game, you get to choose what you want to do with your terrain. If you want to make only a single terrain piece mysterious then go for it. But yeah, by default every single forest, river, etc, is mysterious.

7. I noticed the Imperial Guard Multilaser is AP- instead of AP6, there's a whole appendix for this. But has someone noted every new chance somewhere? I don't want to look through 5-6 pages of these trying to find a different number, even more so at codexes I don't play.

Its still AP6 in the rulebook appendix, so I think we can safely assume that the pg 57 reference is a mistake.

8. Just a curious question. What could form of a "Salvo" weapon if it was handheld/two handed? I'm trying to think of a good example for a small weapon using this rule.

A Psycannon could be a good example of something they theoretically would have given 'Salvo' to if they wrote the codex today.

9. Although Imperial Guard Techpriests/Missionaries can't be warlords, they can still be a Allied choice for a HQ, right?

I don't see why not based on their previous ruling (that they satisfied the mandatory HQ choice). The only reason they changed that ruling seems to be because in a primary detachment you need a Warlord now (which they can't be apparently).

10. Although some of the rulebook powers are useful, the random pickings of them could certainly be useful or useless in the right list. Do you think competitive players will take this chance when choosing a chart?

Only time will tell.

**jms40k**

The answer to #3 is really in how the FAQs are worded. Here is the relevant quote from the IG one for instance:

A Primaris Psyker may use the psychic disciplines found in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, instead of those in Codex: Imperial Guard. If he does so, generate two new powers from the...

Emphasis mine.

**elrabin**

Edit: too slow.

**Praxiss**

Blackgaze wrote:Hi, I finally got done with reading the rulebook and while I'm confident with playing it, there were a few things I wasn't too clear on/easy to read.
I've check through the last few "You make Da Call" Pages and most questions seem to be army related, so sorry if these have been brought up before:

2. Flying Monstrous Creatures. Do they need a flying skimmer base? My Flying Hive Tyrant is on the ground (older model, not new kit), can it still be used this way?
You should be able to user whatever base it is comes with

4. I believe the 5th edition rulebook had the rules for "randomise" models too, but for some reason I never used this and neither did my opponents, as we just picked the models ourselves. If I had to "randomise" a model out of... let's say 23 models (an ork squad etc) this would slow the game down to a halt while we calculate the odds, rather than just picking a model. Am I reading this correctly, does random mean like a dice random, or a player choice?
the rulebook suggests breakign the number into groups divisable by 6 and using a dice to narow down the options - only really time consumign for big groups

8. Just a curious question. What could form of a "Salvo" weapon if it was handheld/two handed? I'm trying to think of a good example for a small weapon using this rule.
From the description it sounds liek the Salvo type will be reserved for some as-yet-unreleased bigger (maybe vehicle) mounted version of rapid fire weapons

9. Although Imperial Guard Techpriests/Missionaries can't be warlords, they can still be a Allied choice for a HQ, right?
if they are a stand-alone HQ choice then i dont see why not

10. Although some of the rulebook powers are useful, the random pickings of them could certainly be useful or useless in the right list. Do you think competitive players will take this chance when choosing a chart?
i suppose so. Molten beam is pretty nasty so it coudl be worth the risk, i guess it also depends on what kind of army you're facing

**jms40k**

yakface wrote:
Blackgaze wrote:

5. Deployment type #3, Vanguard Strike. I'm a bit confused how to calculate this in a game, I understand deploying "12 away from the enemy, but I don't know where to start with the triangle lines. Can someone assist with an answer?
I never liked spearhooks games in 5th, but at least the deployment was easy and understandable ("12 away from middle, inbetween deployments)

Its just 12" up both sides of one corner (on opposite sides), exactly as in the diagram. So in other words, you pick one of the 'off' corners (that is not either players' deployment zone) and you measure up 12" each way off that corner and mark those spots with a die. Then you do the same on the other 'off' corner and it should be pretty obvious from there!

Either I'm reading this response wrong or you're slightly confused too. There is a 24" No-Man's land running parallel to the diagonal of the center. So lay a tape-measure or string across the diagonal and measure 12" from that all the way along on either side to determine no-man's land.

**yakface**

jms40k wrote:
Either I'm reading this response wrong or you're slightly confused too. There is a 24" No-Man's land running parallel to the diagonal of the center. So lay a tape-measure or string across the diagonal and measure 12" from that all the way along on either side to determine no-man's land.

Whoops you're right.

Its actually measure 18" up both edges of the 'off' corners and mark those spots to create a 24" no-mans land.

That's how they always used to tell you how to do it in back in the day when this deployment zone was commonly used in tournaments....don't know why I forgot and jumped back to 12".

**tetrisphreak**

jms40k wrote:
yakface wrote:
Blackgaze wrote:

5. Deployment type #3, Vanguard Strike. I'm a bit confused how to calculate this in a game, I understand deploying "12 away from the enemy, but I don't know where to start with the triangle lines. Can someone assist with an answer?
I never liked spearhooks games in 5th, but at least the deployment was easy and understandable ("12 away from middle, inbetween deployments)

Its just 12" up both sides of one corner (on opposite sides), exactly as in the diagram. So in other words, you pick one of the 'off' corners (that is not either players' deployment zone) and you measure up 12" each way off that corner and mark those spots with a die. Then you do the same on the other 'off' corner and it should be pretty obvious from there!

Either I'm reading this response wrong or you're slightly confused too. There is a 24" No-Man's land running parallel to the diagonal of the center. So lay a tape-measure or string across the diagonal and measure 12" from that all the way along on either side to determine no-man's land.

If you plot a point 12" away on the board edges from the corners, then draw a line, you'll get the triangle deployment zone for your half of the table. the opponent puts dice 12" from the corners on his board edge, lines them up in a straight line, and his triangle zone is formed. If you measure after that has been done you will find a 24" 'no man's land' between zones. Way easier than it looks at first glance.

Edit - Ninja'd above.

18"? Hrm. I'll have to measure this out and confirm. Until then go by Yakface, he is wiser than I.

**WhoopieMonster**

Blackgaze wrote:2. Flying Monstrous Creatures. Do they need a flying skimmer base? My Flying Hive Tyrant is on the ground (older model, not new kit), can it still be used this way?

Edit: Ignore me Blackgaze, I even looked in the FAQ and failed. They are Flying Monstrous Creatures.

**Blackgaze**

Ok thanks

1. Oh well, it should be easy to learn it round in a while.

2. Ok, that's all good.

3. Solved, thanks.

4. I'm still not certain on this. I really want to believe jms40k's answer to solve all game troubles. I still need going to need some help to make this easier if it is random.

5. I guess I was seeing it differently. I just thought it be annoying placing markers "12 away from that angle, which I thought I was seeing it wrong.

6. Ok, I don't mind once in a while for a change. But forests just don't seem to be worth the cover save for the chance to backfire.

7. Ok solved.

8. There was a reason I asked this, something in proposed rules I was thinking about.

9. Ok solved, I didn't think it was big of an issue.

10. Not really a serious question, but more of a thought. Thanks for answering.

Just a couple of things need to be reanswered, since I'm not too bought on them. Thanks for the help so far

**Anpu-adom**

Deleted by user.

**SCvodimier**

Deleted by user

**Blackgaze**

... Did I just miss something in the past 5 minutes?

**jms40k**

If you plot a point 12" away on the board edges from the corners, then draw a line, you'll get the triangle deployment zone for your half of the table. the opponent puts dice 12" from the corners on his board edge, lines them up in a straight line, and his triangle zone is formed. If you measure after that has been done you will find a 24" 'no man's land' between zones. Way easier than it looks at first glance.

Not to be pedantic, but doing that way will result in less than 24" no-man's land

/geometry

**RegulusBlack**

i got a question, can vehicles get deny the witch, i'm assuming so, however canthey be hit with maledictions as well?

**jms40k**

Blackgaze wrote:
4. I'm still not certain on this. I really want to believe jms40k's answer to solve all game troubles. I still need going to need some help to make this easier if it is random.

Can you think of an example where you need to randomise among ALL models in a squad? I'm struggling at the moment, but I'm sure there are a few.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

RegulusBlack wrote:i got a question, can vehicles get deny the witch, i'm assuming so, however canthey be hit with maledictions as well?

Maledictions seem to target "enemy unit" so it should be good to go unless there is a specific exemption. Also, nothing in Deny the Witch (p68) says that it has to be a non-vehicle unit, so that's good to go too I believe.

**yakface**

jms40k wrote:
Blackgaze wrote:
4. I'm still not certain on this. I really want to believe jms40k's answer to solve all game troubles. I still need going to need some help to make this easier if it is random.

Can you think of an example where you need to randomise among ALL models in a squad? I'm struggling at the moment, but I'm sure there are a few.

Necron Transdimensional Beamer.

But luckily no one will likely ever use it (as even in 6th edition you'd need to roll a '6' to hit with it when firing on the move, which is the only way anyone would ever fire it).

**jms40k**

yakface wrote:
jms40k wrote:
Blackgaze wrote:
4. I'm still not certain on this. I really want to believe jms40k's answer to solve all game troubles. I still need going to need some help to make this easier if it is random.

Can you think of an example where you need to randomise among ALL models in a squad? I'm struggling at the moment, but I'm sure there are a few.

Necron Transdimensional Beamer.

But luckily no one will likely ever use it (as even in 6th edition you'd need to roll a '6' to hit with it when firing on the move, which is the only way anyone would ever fire it).

Ok well if it did happen, then I'd follow the rulebook example: Break your orks into 6 groups, roll, then rinse and repeat (should only need to do this a max of twice).

**Praxiss**

MSS requires you to choose a random model in the combat.

I think the portal of Exile on the 'lith does as well.

**DeathReaper**

jms40k wrote:
RegulusBlack wrote:i got a question, can vehicles get deny the witch, i'm assuming so, however canthey be hit with maledictions as well?

Maledictions seem to target "enemy unit" so it should be good to go unless there is a specific exemption. Also, nothing in Deny the Witch (p68) says that it has to be a non-vehicle unit, so that's good to go too I believe.

For some reason vehicles are not listed in the "Unit types" section of the rulebook.

Did I miss something or are vehicles no longer units?

**jms40k**

DeathReaper wrote:
jms40k wrote:
RegulusBlack wrote:i got a question, can vehicles get deny the witch, i'm assuming so, however canthey be hit with maledictions as well?

Maledictions seem to target "enemy unit" so it should be good to go unless there is a specific exemption. Also, nothing in Deny the Witch (p68) says that it has to be a non-vehicle unit, so that's good to go too I believe.

For some reason vehicles are not listed in the "Unit types" section of the rulebook.

Did I miss something or are vehicles no longer units?

"A unit usually consists of several models that have banded together, but a single, powerful model, such as a lone character, a tank, a war engine or a rampaging monster, is also considered to be a unit in its own right."

Later on, it also mentions dedicated transports as counting as a separate unit for a few things, etc. You're right, it's not as explicit but it's there.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, it says under unit types that "Vehicles are distinct enough to require their own section later on..." so, yea, I don't think there really is room for ambiguity here in terms of: Vehicle = Unit.

**DeathReaper**

I figured that was not the case, but seeing the unit types section and it did not list vehicles I was curious.

Thank you.

**Praxiss**

Yeah, they've doen this a few times.

Where it explains Depp Striek it doesn't say anywhere abotu Scattering 2D6, just "scatter as normal".

It's not until you go to the front of the book and see the scatter rules that it states you roll 2D6 for Deep Strike.