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Flyer Zooms, can move 18" - 36" and fire 4 weapons
Flyer can Skyfire or shoot at ground targets
Skyfire allows you to shoot at Flyers with normal BS, but unless you have Interceptor, you can only Snap Fire at Ground Units
Snapfire requirs BS1 and no blast, template, salvo, etc...
Machine Spirit allows you to fire one additional weapon than you normally could, and at a different target unit, and with full Ballistic Skill (assuming you didn't go flat out or use smoke)

What if you elected to "SkyFire" this turn with your BA Stormraven... and you shoot 4 weapons at a flyer (Two Blood Strikes, Lascannons, Multi-Melta). Can you have Machine Spirit(MS) use a 5th weapon to target a ground unit, and would it be at normal BS (Hurricane Bolters)?

Cheers,

No, you can only snapfire at targets on the ground, so while you CAN target you can only use BS1

So you are saying:

Machine Spirit would give you the additional 5th shot... even though Flyer says only fire 4 shots...
Machine Spirit would allow that additional shot at normal BS - as long as you only shoot at air targets by your read
Machine Spirit would still allow the Flyer to pick another target unit even though the Flyer normally can't...

However, if I understand, the Flyer rule still govern's the Machine Spirit rule so the other target unit could not be on the ground unless you wanted to lose the BS bonus of Machine Spirit and go back to BS1?

The application of rules there is:

Flyer rules dictate
Machine Spirit changes rules
Flyer rules override Machine Spirit if firing at ground units.

Not saying it's wrong, just... interesting...

I could see someone saying that Machine Spirit says I can pick a second target and I get full BS. Not saying that such a read is correct either, just an interesting combination of rules.

Cheers,

Yes -because MS specifically allows an additional shot than normal. 5 is 1 more than 4

Yes, you have to abide by the rules as MS deos not specify otherwise

Yes, because again MS specifically states it can pick another target.

You cannot read full BS, because MS does not specify you get full BS. IT just says another shot.

nosferatu1001 wrote:You cannot read full BS, because MS does not specify you get full BS. IT just says another shot.

(pg. 40 BRB) Power of the Machine Spirit
"In a turn which the vehicle neither moves Flat Out nor use smoke launchers, the vehicle can fire one more weapon at its full Ballistic Skill than normally permitted. In addition this weapon can be fired at a different target unit to any other weapons, subject to the normal rules for shooting."

I think it does read, full BS... however, perhaps what really should be looked at is the phrase, "...subject to the normal rules for shooting."

Hmm...

I am leaning towards the "all rules applications part"

So YES you can PoMS something else however, it will be counted as a SNAP SHOT, so no PoMSing with Blast, Ord, Template weapons while Skyfiering.

Tactica wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:You cannot read full BS, because MS does not specify you get full BS. IT just says another shot.

(pg. 40 BRB) Power of the Machine Spirit
"In a turn which the vehicle neither moves Flat Out nor use smoke launchers, the vehicle can fire one more weapon at its full Ballistic Skill than normally permitted. In addition this weapon can be fired at a different target unit to any other weapons, subject to the normal rules for shooting."

I think it does read, full BS... however, perhaps what really should be looked at is the phrase, "...subject to the normal rules for shooting."

Hmm...

Which is fine, because MS does not specify that the shot is allowable to not be with Skyfire.

Since the Flyer chooses to either have Skyfire, or shoot at Ground targets; then no matter which you choose(firing your 4 weapons against another flyer, or ground targets) for your regular 4 attacks, that "Mode" has been selected for your firing.

While MS does allow for full BS, firing at ground targets with skyfire(the mode you have chosen in your example) is always resolved at BS1(your BS does not change, the shots are merely resolved at BS1).

The Last bit of MS is the import bit as you said.

It seems to me that you would get full bs with the machine spirit shot if you were firing at another flyer

If you were shooting at another Flyer, Skimmer, Flying Monster, than YES full BS!

Mandragola wrote:It seems to me that you would get full bs with the machine spirit shot if you were firing at another flyer

Yes, of course.

I was only discussing the situation given where the poster wanted to shoot at a Ground target with the MS.

Also if you had the option to put a weapon with the "interceptor" rule on the Storm raven, then it could be fired at a ground target with BS4 via the MS, while the remaining 4 weapons fire at another Flyer, Flying MC, or Skimmer.

OK, this makes sense to me. The last bit seems to govern, therefore, you would still be subject to normal shooting restrictions, and thus fire at ground targets with the PoMS shot at BS1.

Cheers,

I think PoMS would 'overwrite' the fact that the shot would have to be snapfire, otherwise it would be useless. If a Stormraven is hovering (fast skimmer) and moved at cruising speed, it would get to fire 2 weapons at normal BS and snapfire the rest. So you get another shot at full BS with PoMS, but since any more than the first 2 shots have to be snapshots 'subject to the normal rules for shooting,' PoMS would never be useful.

I think 'subject to the normal rules for shooting' refers to in range, etc. And another shot at full BS means that stormraven could blast a ground target at full BS. It is an advanced targeting computer (person wired into gun) after all.

Andromeda wrote:I think PoMS would 'overwrite' the fact that the shot would have to be snapfire, otherwise it would be useless. If a Stormraven is hovering (fast skimmer) and moved at cruising speed, it would get to fire 2 weapons at normal BS and snapfire the rest. So you get another shot at full BS with PoMS, but since any more than the first 2 shots have to be snapshots 'subject to the normal rules for shooting,' PoMS would never be useful.

I think 'subject to the normal rules for shooting' refers to in range, etc. And another shot at full BS means that stormraven could blast a ground target at full BS. It is an advanced targeting computer (person wired into gun) after all.

That's an interesting take... but using your example, if the Stormraven was in Hover Mode (Fast Skimmer), it could...
**** Ground Targets from Hover
- move 6", fire all at ground, full BS + special rule PoMS to one add target at full BS subject to normal rules
- move 12", fire 2 at full BS + 2 at Snap Shot + special rule PoMS to one add target at full BS subject to normal rules

**** Zooming Flyer Targets from Hover
- move 6", fire all at full BS + special rule PoMS to one add target at full BS subject to normal rules + Snap Shot overrides BS
- move 12", fire 2 at Snap Shot + special rule PoMS to one add target at full BS subject to normal rules + Snap Shot overrides BS

So, you could elect to target flyers with your normal shooting, then PoMS at a separate target at full BS that was on the ground... you'll always get the additional target from PoMS and the additional gun for your movement mode from PoMS... but subject to normal rules, you'll still have to Snap Shot at Flyers, either way.

This actually helps me accept that reading more and I feel that is probably how it is meant to be played. I don't think PoMS overrides Snap Shot requirements of Flyer Targets now.

Cheers,

"subject to the normal rules for shooting" in regards to a Flyer that has Chosen to take on the Skyfire rule this turn is snapfire only at ground targets.

Nothing in PotMS allows you(or forces you) to remove special rules on the vehicle.

You choose whether to have Skyfire on your flyer(making all shots from any weapons use the Skyfire special rule) or not on a turn-by-turn basis.