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It seems to me that they are, with the buffs in shooting and the Furious charge nerf, but most importantly the AP3 nature of their hellswords.

This is now a melee expert that cant really get into melee as easily, hits the same time as marines, and is useless against terminators. Given how they were some of the best troops before, this is very annoying for us Daemon players.

Opinions? Are you still gonna use your Bloodletters/Crushers? It seems demonettes are now a far more appropirate choice, though frankly I am thinking I am going to stick to Plaguebearers and Pink Horrors for a while, and let the MCs do the killing.

I can't remember bloodletters have rending don't they?

No, that's Daemonettes. They have Hellblades, which are AP3 weapons now. A single model may have Rending via Fury of Khorne, but that's it.

Of corse they're not uselss, they're just not the 'uber 'universal answer to everything' that they used to be - Bloodcrushers even more so.

Both units are now our best counters to MEQ units. Bloodletters will tear apart targets like tactical, devastator, assault squads, etc... And also any MEQ squad that's loaded with power toys/fists as they're not losing out on any saves of their own.
Bloodcrushers on the other hand can go after the more elite MEQ squads like Thunderwolves or the tougher squads like bikers due to their better stats.

Now, Slaaneshii units are better TEQ killers thanks to their rending. That doesn't mean the Khornate daemons are worthless though. Charge a large enough squad in, and wieght of attacks will kill those termies. Hell, just support your daemons with a little bit of shooting now, or else throw a MC in there to help out!

Gone are the days we could just blindly throw Bloodcrushers at everything and be assured of kicking the crap out of it. Stop thinking like it's 5th edition - we're now playing a game, it's called 6th edition and we're going to have to re-think our tactics a bit!
And anyways, if you're really THAT terrified of suddenly facing a horde of TEQ spam, then just ally some fething plasma vets and ap2 spam them to death.

And anyways, if you're really THAT terrified of suddenly facing a horde of TEQ spam, then just ally some fething plasma vets and ap2 spam them to death.

Not sure why you'd even want that, I honestly thought everyone took a mix of crushers and FIENDS.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

And anyways, if you're really THAT terrified of suddenly facing a horde of TEQ spam, then just ally some fething plasma vets and ap2 spam them to death.

Not sure why you'd even want that, I honestly thought everyone took a mix of crushers and FIENDS.

Plasma Vets hiding in a chimera will still be pretty damn good for countering the likes of Deathwing/Loganwing/Draigowing as two squads are pretty cheap and give you some multi-shot S6 + boatloads of rapid firing plasma. Or you could even just forgo the transport, give them the camo upgrade for 'stealth' usr and then hide them in terrain.
I agree we don't need to include them. Flamers still work just fine for dealing with 2+ saves, and we still have FIENDS!, Seekers, large blobs of Daemonettes, Slaanesh Heralds & MC's to take them out in combat...

But apparently, there's alot of Daemon players out there who ran 16+ 'Crushers and never once ran into a single Warp Quake squad...
Now they're all moaning about how their Fatecrusher lists are utterly 'useless', (lol, yah right!), and b ing about how 'nerfed' Daemons are because 'Letters & 'Crushers can't ignore termie saves anymore.

As for me, I played a fairly balanced list with a focus on Tzeentchy shooting, so my army is going to transition just fine!

Well my army was royally fethed, and rethinking tactics will be nigh impossible without costing a boat load of money, the power weapon change has made Grey Knights actually over powered, my mainly Khorne Daemon army is a dust collector now, and I'm off to fantasy till I find a place people will play 5th edition. Almost my entire army reduced to nothing, I had high hopes for the 6th editon.

Yes they are absolutely terrible.

*steps into time machine and travels 18 months into the future*

They are absolutely broken.

Seriously,experiment with them and see how you can make them work.

Well my army was royally fethed, and rethinking tactics will be nigh impossible without costing a boat load of money, the power weapon change has made Grey Knights actually over powered, my mainly Khorne Daemon army is a dust collector now,

Still killing the MEQ well with crushers, letters and soul grinders with Phlegm, TEQ with Herald of khorne with fury/Bloodthirsters/Daemon princes/skulltaker/Crusher with Fury/ Letter with fury/Hounds with fury (For that nice 2++ save against them all)

In short, you are over-reacting.

Bloodcrushers and 'letters may not be as good as they once were, but the rest of the codex definitely improved. Tzeentch got a huge overhaul, Epidemius is fantastic combined with Nurgle Marines, and Fateweaver and his Flying Circus are filthy. Only problem is deepstrike randomness...oh, wait. We have the skyshield we can land on to remove that and I hear it's only 75 points. Um...yeah, it's worth it. Daemons are on top of the heap and are scary again (as they should be). Just give different things a chance.

blood reaper wrote:Well my army was royally fethed, and rethinking tactics will be nigh impossible without costing a boat load of money, the power weapon change has made Grey Knights actually over powered, my mainly Khorne Daemon army is a dust collector now, and I'm off to fantasy till I find a place people will play 5th edition. Almost my entire army reduced to nothing, I had high hopes for the 6th editon.

*sigh*
See what I mean ZebioLizard2.

I can still hear the local Khorne play screaming from the next city over about how his 24 strong Fatecrusher list is useless and GW are evil, despicible s who are just trying to rape his wallet again...

And this is why we can't ever have nice things.

Experiment 626 wrote:

blood reaper wrote:Well my army was royally fethed, and rethinking tactics will be nigh impossible without costing a boat load of money, the power weapon change has made Grey Knights actually over powered, my mainly Khorne Daemon army is a dust collector now, and I'm off to fantasy till I find a place people will play 5th edition. Almost my entire army reduced to nothing, I had high hopes for the 6th editon.

*sigh*
See what I mean ZebioLizard2.

I can still hear the local Khorne play screaming from the next city over about how his 24 strong Fatecrusher list is useless and GW are evil, despicible s who are just trying to rape his wallet again...

And this is why we can't ever have nice things.

How is a fatecrusher list a Khorne list? Even a mono khorne list can deal with TEQ with their rending option (You know, Fury of Khorne? Every khorne unit can get it!)

Everything in the list has an answer to MEQ or TEQ (Nurgle depends a bit more on it's SC's for this, but seeing as he gets 5++/5++ against terminators with his units, he'll be in it for the long haul)

I've listed the Khorne variants, now for the rest!

Slaanesh: Everything due to innate rending.

Tzeentch: Flamers make a mockery of them, Bolt of change everywhere.

Nurgle: Ku'gaths necrotic missle has a use now! Will have to depend on Daemon princes with Smash, heralds with breath of chaos, maybe plague beasts with numbers of attacks.

Chaos Daemons has no shortage of anti-TEQ. It's everywhere, khorne can even take BREATH OF CHAOS, which gives no armor saves on a 4+!

Anyone who truly believes chaos daemons is weaker, really should learn to look outside of Fatecrusher! The sudden taking of the "Doom Sign" needs to stop at times.

I totally agree with you ZebioLizard2!

The only Daemon players I've heard complain about the new rules are the ones whining that they're 16-24 'Crushers can't auto roflstomp everything anymore! (poor babies )

Right now I'm looking at my Tzeentch/Slaanesh list and giggling with delight at the awful amount of new nastiness I can unleash!
I think I might need some more Flamers however, and maybe bring my Seekers upto 12 strong units! Oh, and wings on my Nurgle prince for good measure...


As for the local guy crying about his Fatecrusher list, he 'claims' it's a Khorne list because it's basically;
Fateweaver
2x HoK on Juggers
16-24 'Crushers
2x 5 Plaguebearers for min troops & objective camping
2-3 MoK Princes

He also has problems with me turning Fateweaver into a spawn as well when I manage it... But that's just Tzeentch's sense of humor for you!

Just need to support them. I miss the I5 on the charge more than I do the Ignores Armor, personally, but they still are the best unit for killing MEQs in the game.

I'm going to experiment with converting one of my noxious touch nurgle princes into a CSM Pyromancer DP and then buying a giant squad of 20 CSM.

They are same price as horrors (after factoring in gear), get a better save, T, have a better range, and can actually kill things in melee (especially if you give them MoK which essentially gives them counter attack).

The bane of most daemons has always been massed small arms, and now I have small arms of my own to counter it. I can still reserve the entire army and have the CSM deployed out of LOS in a deep strike formation if I had to.