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Here is the situation:




The blue guys are shooting at the red guys, A part of the red guys are standing in area terrain (just a shallow crater giving a 5+ coversave) the rest of the red guys are standing right behind the are terrain. Since the red guys lack armour against the blue guys shooting the red guy really wants his cover saves. The Blue guys however choose to focus fire (no cover) on the red guys that are not in cover. The red guy wants to claim cover even for the guys not in cover (circled in blue) since they are behind his own guys in cover (circled in green).

Now, the question is will the guys (red guys circled in blue) get a coversave or not?

Arguments:
The same squad does not count as an interveening model (or unit), page 18.
Since not targeting the guys in cover, but the guys behind with focus fire, should not the part of the squad in front actually not count as part of the unit, thereby granting coversaves to the ones behind?

Can the units firing see the models out of the crater? Or is sight to them blocked by the models in the crater. If you have clear LOS to the models outside the crater (eg: you are on an elevation or a hill) then I would say you could focus fire on them. If you cant get a clear shot at them, Id say no

If I remember correctly craters give cover save only if you inside them.

You are right about focus fire. Unless that was a complete seperate squad outside being intervened by the squad inside terrain he will not get a cover save on them.

copper.talos wrote:If I remember correctly craters give cover save only if you inside them.

You don't. TLoS still applies. So long as the crater is tall enough that it's covering 25% of the guys standing behind it, focus fire doesn't do anything because they all have the same cover save.

If the guys outside of the crater were standing to the left or the right of it, so that the firing unit had an unobstructed view, then focus fire could be used when shooting. Behind the crater doesn't fly.

Reread the description of the crater and the other terrains to see the difference in the wording. And anyway there aren't any craters that tall to give cover saves anyway.

In this example a unit that would be standing out in the open behind the terrain would not get any cover from the shooters. But I feel that it is rather strange that they still would not benefit from any cover although the had a part of their own unit blocking sight to the ones without cover.

Rules as written would allow this focus fire (no cover on those behind), but Should it really be this way?

Yet, it says models of the same unit do not count as intervening models. Logic IMO says you wouldnt be able to hit them if they were behind, but would work if they were on the side.

In this example a unit that would be standing out in the open behind the terrain would not get any cover from the shooters. But I feel that it is rather strange that they still would not benefit from any cover although the had a part of their own unit blocking sight to the ones without cover.

Rules as written would allow this focus fire (no cover on those behind), but Should it really be this way?

This is how I read it,

Fluff wise imagine the guys in front have thrown themselves into cover and are kissing dirts/crouching. Also remeber in real life craters tend to be lower than the surrounding area (you know hole in the gound) so the guys behind would be higher. So unless you you are willing to start carving holes in your gaming table you'll have live with it not making a lot of sense.

Considering the red dots are space marines, remember that their height is near 1.5 in, meaning that if they are standing behind a 0.4 in obstacle they get 5+ cover, in centimeters that would be near 1cm of height if the crater is that tall then they would probably receive cover

Edit: Assuming both units are at exactly the same level, if your unit is on a small hill then no cover for those poor red souls

If you think realistically: For the unit in the terrain to claim cover, each man would (realistically) be crouching or lying prone to be their cover. Coupled with "same unit models do not grant each other cover saves", this would allow the shooters to simply fire over the crouched/prone guys in cover, and kill anyone outside of it...