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So we have the appendix in the back of the rulebook which states which models are characters, such as Nobs or Space Marine Sergeants. And the most recent codexes like Codex: Necrons and Codex: Grey Knights also state for most army list entries which are characters.

But the appendix doesn't list all models in the various codexes, like all the named characters. I assume models like Mephiston are characters, but it's not actually stated anywhere. Lictors aren't characters, what does that make the Deathleaper? Is he not a character because his base type, Lictors are not? Or is he one becaused he is a special unique character? What about a Grey Knight Apothecary? Is he a character because his base type, Paladin, is also a character?

Am I just missing something or is it very unclear?

Edit: Ignore me while I think up a better argument, my first one was wrong in several ways.

In regards to Mephiston and other characters: the best I can find is on page 63 for mephiston himself, as it actually says he is one. also on p.63 is the independent character entry, which says that some characters are independent characters, and while it would be more helpful the other way round, tis the best I can do.

This is the first time I've read over a rules bit. Its annoyingly vague. I'd say yeah he is, since he is an upgraded version of a lictor, but how I would play it has no real weight here so...eh. Doesn't bother me, its quite clear for guard I think.

Death leaper is a seperate unit, cannot join things so it shouldn't matter really. He's just a special lictor.

Phototoxin wrote:Death leaper is a seperate unit, cannot join things so it shouldn't matter really. He's just a special lictor.

There is a big difference, as solo characters can still challenge other characters. Characters also get Precision Strikes and Precision Shots.

Take the Nemesis Dreadknight for instance; he is a character, and because he can now challenge the hidden powerfist Sergeant or the Powerklaw Nob from a squad when he is in assault, either killing it before it gets a chance to strike, or disallow it from fighting if it didn't agree to the challenge. Makes them a lot better in assault.

Phototoxin wrote:Death leaper is a seperate unit, cannot join things so it shouldn't matter really. He's just a special lictor.

Being a character matters quite a lot to single models. Being able to challenge a leader and not fight the entire unit can be a life-saver. You also get to allocate wounds, etc.

Named models are called special or named characters in 40k. Unsure whether this is still in the 6th book, it definitely was in the 5th.

Basically any model which has a special name and is unique is a character. The Ork FAQ confirms this when asking about Snikrot, Badrukk and Zagstrukk (named characters).

Anything that has the IC special rule is a character per definition. Anything listed with a (C) in the Apendix is a character.

Ah, just noticed the Special Character bit all the way by the Force Organisation Battle in Organizing a Battle. So that would make all uniquely named models characters at least. Independent Characters being Characters would also make sense, even if it is not directly implied in the rules.

So what about models like the Grey Knight Apothecary? Does that one fall under the 'has a separate profile, but do not have a separate entry'?

I'd say its still a character, it doesn't stop being able to cast holocaust, hammerhand, all that, I don't see why it would stop being a character too...and why the hell is it all the way over there? yeesh. Thanks for letting us know.

Redemption wrote:Ah, just noticed the Special Character bit all the way by the Force Organisation Battle in Organizing a Battle. So that would make all uniquely named models characters at least. Independent Characters being Characters would also make sense, even if it is not directly implied in the rules.

So what about models like the Grey Knight Apothecary? Does that one fall under the 'has a separate profile, but do not have a separate entry'?

Ork models are clearly marked by profile, not by entry. Thus, I'd say the apothecary is not a character. Whether this is intended or not remains to be seen.

Well, given the Apothecary is in a unit of characters I would say he is one.

If you build a flash git unit with Badrukk, a dok, two gits and a warboss, those two gits would be in a unit of characters, too.

They are not getting the character rule though.

Thats a little different. The Apothecary was a Paladin that got the Apothecary upgrade.

Nothing prevents you from losing special rules as part of your upgrade.

Page 85 of the Tyranid codex identifies all unique Tyranids as special characters.

Jidmah wrote:Nothing prevents you from losing special rules as part of your upgrade.

And nothing says you do.

You lose special rules when upgrading flash gits to pain boyz.

You also lose special rules when upgrading a warboss with a bike.

Jidmah wrote:Nothing prevents you from losing special rules as part of your upgrade.

Being a character is not a special rule in the same way that upgrading your boyz is. As it says in the BRB characters are the leaders of your army, like a Sergeant. A Paladin is a leader, and as such his upgraded version is too. I would say the Apothecary is a character because an Apothecary is a Paladin with other special rules.

Back of the book with all the codex unit listings and stats will have a (Ch) in their last entry. Its usually troop leaders and stuff, IC's ect.

Sorry at work and dont know the page number for it. Its the place where you find all your hull points for vehicals and unit listings.

Yes, I already mentioned that table in the opening post. As I said, it doesn't list everything or there would be no issue.

Redemption wrote:Yes, I already mentioned that table in the opening post. As I said, it doesn't list everything or there would be no issue.

Ah sorry, durpa. My ruling for it is, unless the codex says its an IC then its not a character. maybe there is a balancing reason or something that unit isnt one but others are.

Redemption wrote: I assume models like Mephiston are characters, but it's not actually stated anywhere.

It's not? Because in my rulebook Mephiston is specifically used as an example of what a single model character unit is in my 6th edition rulebook. Characters are actually made fairly clear in 6th given the list in the back of the book. If a model is a Special Character it is still a character, with the exception of some units in the Tyranid book because I don't see mindless alien monsters excepting and issuing challenges but some are. I expect to see a special rule for Tyranids in a future codex.

Riker210 wrote:

Redemption wrote:Yes, I already mentioned that table in the opening post. As I said, it doesn't list everything or there would be no issue.

Ah sorry, durpa. My ruling for it is, unless the codex says its an IC then its not a character. maybe there is a balancing reason or something that unit isnt one but others are.

Characters are not limited to IC. The description specifically names Veteran Sergeants as characters. Sergeants are not IC so it cannot be limited to IC. A Chapter Champion is not an IC but is required to issue a challenge to any character he is engaged with. Since only characters can issue challenges it cannot be limited to IC only.

As the Character rules explain, there is a difference between Characters and Independent Characters.

As an example, not every character can join units.
As a repetition, every unique model is a character.

NecronLord3 wrote: with the exception of some units in the Tyranid book because I don't see mindless alien monsters excepting and issuing challenges but some are. I expect to see a special rule for Tyranids in a future codex.

Many Nids are *not* mindless.....

As near as I can tell, the ONLY models not listed in the Appendix, are named models. If you look at GK/BA/BT/DA/SW (don't know about SW to be honest) a number of models and vehicles are not listed under their respective army, but ARE included under Space Marines.

As near as I can tell, the only things listed under those armies are army-specific models, so the Stormraven (GK/BA only) is under Space Marines as it is not unique to one army.

Apothecarys have the "Character" rule in the back of the BTB.

Just saying. (for Vanilla Marines, they are, at least.

coredump wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote: with the exception of some units in the Tyranid book because I don't see mindless alien monsters excepting and issuing challenges but some are. I expect to see a special rule for Tyranids in a future codex.

Many Nids are *not* mindless.....

You are right which is why I said "some are". Tyranids have few characters as listed in the 6 BRB but as of right now any Tyranid special character is by definition also a character.