Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So im and eldar player and everywhere i see people saying wraithguard arent good and to just leave them at home but every time i play with them i tend to dominate, so y does every eldar player hate them cuz they seem like the deathstar unitjavascript:emoticon('');

I think because they are super expensive, super slow, and have weapons with no range? Most armies are just going to drive in circles around them and kill them. Most of the Eldar stuff that works is fast.

Um... I think they're the schnitz now...

But, your YMMV...

I've had fun using WG with WL and lead by FW's wraithseer.

But that may be overkill.

On a serious note, they're hard to use right and timing has to be perfect. In 5th ed, sticking them in a serpent and disembarking at the right moment was perfect. Now, well who knows?

They look pretty lethal now with a farseer granting full bs overwatch; bye bye charging terminators / MCs!

Mainly because you need a mortgage to buy each one, even on ebay. Bring on the plasic wraithguard already!

xttz wrote:Mainly because you need a mortgage to buy each one, even on ebay. Bring on the plasic wraithguard already!

Well, I bought them on ebay and worked pretty well.
WG with conceal is a very durable unit unless it gets hit by a battle cannon or something similar. Then you better fortune the unit. Generally, you need Eldrad get some more buffs.

400 points for the troop unit.
Granted they are awesome, but slow as gak and cost a $150 unless you get an amazing ebay deal.

The price$ and the points cost is why I assume they arent on everyones list. In 6t I am trying to run a 5 man squad with eldrad and a warlock wit conceal. I will try then in a serpent and on foot. At 2000 points I will have a wraithguard and Avatar near by as well as a group of war walkers.

I really have always liked wraithguard but never fit them in my list. I think now I have. 175 pts isnt so bad. Not a troop choice, but they arent gonna just sit there, I will be moving them right towards the enemy the whole time. The list I run the in is in the link in my sig.

I love Wraithguard. I stick Eldrad in there backed up by twin wraithlords and a unit of scatter laser war walkers, and they are a solid (albeit - short ranged) anvil.

DX3 wrote:I love Wraithguard. I stick Eldrad in there backed up by twin wraithlords and a unit of scatter laser war walkers, and they are a solid (albeit - short ranged) anvil.

We think alike. It give the enemy alot to shoot at. Making target priority more difficult. Who do you pick? Wraithlord, Avatar, war walkers, wraithguard??

My friend just got a unit of 10, give them super guide(what we call the divination primary power) as well as the defensive shooting power and they will end units. Throw in a fortune and Conceal on top of that and I have a unit that cant really be assaulted, will kill anything that gets close, and very durable against small arms fire.

Leth wrote:My friend just got a unit of 10, give them super guide(what we call the divination primary power) as well as the defensive shooting power and they will end units. Throw in a fortune and Conceal on top of that and I have a unit that cant really be assaulted, will kill anything that gets close, and very durable against small arms fire.

Sounds like sheer death. But thats alot of points. And also not being 100% sure you will get the improved overwatch ability as its random kinda sucks. With eldrad and 4 rolls on the chart is nice and should be an almost 100% assurance every time, but still you cant rely on it.

You should have a 95% chance of getting it with Eldrad, but it requires you to hae only Divination powers. Of course you could get luck the first roll.

jbunny wrote:You should have a 95% chance of getting it with Eldrad, but it requires you to hae only Divination powers. Of course you could get luck the first roll.

Math and percentages makes things so easy. Seems eldrad in divination is the way to go in this circumstance.

jbunny wrote:You should have a 95% chance of getting it with Eldrad, but it requires you to hae only Divination powers. Of course you could get luck the first roll.

How did you come to 95%?

I think it would be cheaper to buy their weight in gold and try to smelt them yourself. Probably makes a good base coat as well!

I used to have a unit of 10 that I got off ebay, cost me like $60 but they had to be stripped.

Kevlar wrote:I think because they are super expensive, super slow, and have weapons with no range?

This is the crux of the argument. Although they could be all those things if they were fewer points, but they're an obnoxious number of those as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Leth wrote:My friend just got a unit of 10, give them super guide(what we call the divination primary power) as well as the defensive shooting power and they will end units. Throw in a fortune and Conceal on top of that and I have a unit that cant really be assaulted, will kill anything that gets close, and very durable against small arms fire.

So you're paying 700 points to a squad that still loses every time to 30 Orks or Guardsmen. End units? What units are you seeing across the table?

A 10 man group with warlock and farseer is an expensive point investment. A 5 man group with warlock and/or farseer is more easily doable. Yea its not scoring but i never want them to just sit there anyway.

I've definitely learned to respect wraithguard. Yes, they're really expensive, pointswise, but they're practically the most difficult unit in the game to wipe out, what with their rerollable 3+ save with nearby (or better yet, attached) farseer.

The worst part is that they didn't even take a hit in close combat like practically everything else. If you're going to try and be sneaky by targeting a character, now you're targeting something with a rerollable ++ save. They did get a little weaker against properly directed heavy weapons fire (what with not always being able to put the first low Ap wound on the characters and everything else on the wraithguard regardless of where your opponent is, but that's a pretty slight dip. As mentioned, they also got better.

Other than the cost in money, I think people have just had sticker shock all this time. They just can't bear to spend so many points on a single unit, despite the fact that they're worth every point you choose to spend. In an army packed to the pointy hat with fragile units, wraithguard are a brick wall. They may be slower than other eldar units, but they don't NEED to be as fast. When they finally show up where they need to be around turn 3, they're going to be the turd in the punch bowl for your opponent, especially when stuff that they shoot at starts mysteriously disappearing into the warp...

... and if you don't handle them... they score.

Ailaros wrote:... and if you don't handle them... they score.

Only if there's ten of them led by a spritseer...

Which I was assuming.

I have no idea why you'd bother with a 5x wraithguard squad. It would be like fielding a 3x orgyn squad or a 1x tyranid warrior squad or as devestator squad without any heavy weapons. Why spend fewer points, when their quality (and, more importantly, value), increases with the more points you spend on them.

Because sometimes there are just better units than them. Especially in fifth ed without overwatch and all these new rules, WG were used for either short range tank killing or heavy infantry killing. And then they got charged by an ork mob and didn't do anything for the rest of the game.

Thanks to their AP2 now, they will be used much more often of course, but I'm still not sure I would bother spending 400 points on 10 wraithguard with warlock. That goes up to about 500 if you add the farseer. A third of my army in a unit that could very easily get tarpitted and become effectively useless? No thanks.

Ailaros wrote:Which I was assuming.

I have no idea why you'd bother with a 5x wraithguard squad. It would be like fielding a 3x orgyn squad or a 1x tyranid warrior squad or as devestator squad without any heavy weapons. Why spend fewer points, when their quality (and, more importantly, value), increases with the more points you spend on them.

I agreed with everything you had to say about wraithguard UNTIL you said a 5 man unit isnt worth it :-). I love my 5 man unit with a forward assisting farseer. IDC if they score or not They make the enemy not be able to score. I dont send them in unassisted either. With the points I save by not taking 10 of them, I bring the avatar instead and even a wraithlord. Hell I even keep my warwalkers nearby and just push that whole blob up one side of the board. If they want to shoot at that mess of items they need to pick what to hit. War walkers are fragile so when (at least in games i've played) you stick them near units that "seem" scarier, They dont get shot up. My opponent will more then likely use turns shooting at the wraithguard, Lord, and avatar who will all soak up shots like champs with eldrad in the middle of all of them.

Sorry slightly off topic there. But I see wraithguard as a solid bullet magnet as well who can protect other units who would usually get shot at. Also that 5 man unit can easily hop into a wave serpent if needed. A 10 man unit cant.

**secretly I am just jealous as I dont own 10 wraithguard and there for are arguing that the 5 man unit is better :-)

5x wraithguard are tough, but very killable. 10x wraithguard are practically invincible.

10x wraithguard are a much better value, even than two units of 5x wraithguard, because your opponent can't just kill one squad and then the other. Not only are they easier to kill, but, as follows, they're easier to stop from contesting anywhere, or otherwise being a pain as you can kill the most offensive squad before its too late. The 10x version also offers half the kill points.

Plus, your farseer can only cast fortune once, which means that a single 10x squad is more durable.

Plus, that 10x squad scores, rather than being stuck contesting.

In this case, the proverbial whole really is greater than the sum of its proverbial parts.

Ailaros wrote:5x wraithguard are tough, but very killable. 10x wraithguard are practically invincible.

10x wraithguard are a much better value, even than two units of 5x wraithguard, because your opponent can't just kill one squad and then the other. Not only are they easier to kill, but, as follows, they're easier to stop from contesting anywhere, or otherwise being a pain as you can kill the most offensive squad before its too late. The 10x version also offers half the kill points.

Plus, your farseer can only cast fortune once, which means that a single 10x squad is more durable.

Plus, that 10x squad scores, rather than being stuck contesting.

In this case, the proverbial whole really is greater than the sum of its proverbial parts.

That all makes very much sense. But I believe we intend to do separate things with our WG. I use mine in a way that they are supported by and support other units. If I could fit another 5 in my list to make them scoring and have a 10 man troop, I sure would. But I just dont have to points to spare. I always make the mistake of having too few models on the table. I would (personally) rather have my blob of death I mentioned before, Eldrad, 5 WG, Wraithlord, Avatar, and Scatter Walkers fight for control over half of the board and support eachother. Wiping out anyone trying to grab objectives in their range. Kind of a slow and purposeful blob of death. And then boost my GJB's in to snag objectives behind them. Yes I could drop the avatar and cut back some other places to throw in the rest of the WG (if I can ever own 10) and try it out. Ya cant say no until you tried it.

Just a thought but do you ever feel like 10 of them is overkill? Like yea they can mess up anything for the most part in their range. They are also extremely hard to kill. But Thats packing a TON of meat into a 12" bubble. Idk just my thoughts. 10 Wraithguard can only cover so much of the board. 10 can do an awesome job but I feel like 5 Can do a decent job and free up room elsewhere on your FOC.

Razgriz22 wrote:But I just dont have to points to spare. I always make the mistake of having too few models on the table.

But this gets to my point, really. This is usually a problem with most eldar units, but wraithguard aren't the same as most eldar units. Most eldar units are very fragile, and you've got to work to bring enough. Meanwhile, 10 wraithguard are easily more durable than 30 guardians against most stuff. Even with only 10 of them, they don't actually count as too few models, as they have the durability of several models.

If you miss that fact, then wraithguard are just really, really expensive eldar units. If you see how they don't behave like eldar units when they start getting shot at or hacked at in close combat, you start to see where their real value lies, especially in large squads.

As an outside observer, seems a unit of 10 would be tarpitted very easily. They have virtually no close combat killy ability, even a tactical squad could tie them down long enough.

Testify wrote:As an outside observer, seems a unit of 10 would be tarpitted very easily. They have virtually no close combat killy ability, even a tactical squad could tie them down long enough.

That's why you bring something to counter assault...

Like a small harlie unit!

whembly wrote:

Testify wrote:As an outside observer, seems a unit of 10 would be tarpitted very easily. They have virtually no close combat killy ability, even a tactical squad could tie them down long enough.

That's why you bring something to counter assault...

Like a small harlie unit!

Or the Avatar!!