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I like this list, I know there might be some resentment towards GK/SW combos but please take a look, note there is a Land Raider Achilles in the Heavy Slot for the wolves, we allow IA units in our games.

Xenos Inquisitor (just needed a cheap HQ, no upgrades) 25pts

5x Strike Squad w/ Deamon Hammer, Psycannon in a Razorback w/ TL Lascannon 200pts

5x Strike Squad w/ Deamon Hammer, Psycannon in a Razorback w/ TL Lascannon 200pts

Stormraven w/ TL Multi Melta, TL Lascannon 205pts

Stormraven w/ TL Multi Melta, TL Lascannon 205pts

Space Wolf Allies

Wolf Guard Battle Leader w/ Thunderwolf Mount, Runic Armour, Wolftooth Necklase, Storm Shield, Frost Axe, Melta Bombs 205pts

Wolf Guard Battle Leader w/ Thunderwolf Mount, Runic Armour, Wolf Tooth Necklase, Storm Shield, and Frost Axe 200pts

5x Grey Hunters w/Melta Gun 80pts

3x Thunderwolf Cavalry w/Storm Shield and Thunder Hammer 210pts

Achilles Land Raider 325pts

I am starting to really like this list, although there are several things I think I could alter or change.

The two Battle Leaders ride along with the Cav to provide a strong counter to any terminators or other AV2 troops I come across plus with their Runic Armour I can stick them out front in case I run into units with AP3 power weapons. I like the Two Storm Ravens for their ability to target vehicles or units that can harm the Achilles or instakill the Cav, I originally had a Wolf Lord in place of the 2 Battle Leaders with Eternal Warrior but there are very few weapons that can instakill a T5 Thunderwolf. The Achilles and the Cav provide a solid 1-2 hammer right into the heart of the enemy.

One thing I think I need to do is getting a couple wolves for the Battle leaders, having them run out in front of the unit to soak up any wounds that come their way.

I have also thought about switching to an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor an making him a Psyker to get get Psychic Communion to try an get the Storm Ravens into the fight quicker, between that an trying for the strategic warlord trait that allows you to reroll reserves (I know its random but I could take the chance) would be a huge help in getting them both in on turn 2.

As it stands I have no anti air, but plenty of stuff to ground pound, another route I could take would be to swap the GK and SW around an make the SW the primary. I could swap a Strike Squad for a Grey Hunter squad, drop one of the Battle Leaders, a Storm Raven and pick up the Skyshield Landing Pad, a Wolf Priest, and a squad of 5x Missile Launcher Long Fangs to hang out on top of the pad. The Priest can give the Long Fangs preferred enemy flyers, so that would give me 10 tries to get a 6 against flyers after rerolls an the Pad would give the Priest an LFs a 4+ invuln against incomming fire.

What do you think I really like this list.

I'd try to trim a few things to get a rhino/razor to the grey hunters, other than that good job on not taking 5 ML's XD

EDIT - and not sure on the LR achillies, never even seen the rule for it (doesnt it have a thunderfire cannon inside it?) so should be fun

Your allies list is illegal....you're only allowed 1 HQ in your allied force. I also feel that you're light on scoring bodies with only 3 minimum troop selections. 15 Marines are not hard to down at this level.

BewareOfTom wrote:I'd try to trim a few things to get a rhino/razor to the grey hunters, other than that good job on not taking 5 ML's XD

EDIT - and not sure on the LR achillies, never even seen the rule for it (doesnt it have a thunderfire cannon inside it?) so should be fun

The Achilles can carry 6 troops so the Grey Hunters can ride in there as it rolls across the field. It has the same melta protection as the Storm Raven, an has 2 TL Multi Meltas and a Thunderfire cannon. You don't think I should take the Long Fangs for anti air support? I am sorely lacking especially against Storm Ravens, Vendettas, and Winged MCs.


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Zathras wrote:Your allies list is illegal....you're only allowed 1 HQ in your allied force. I also feel that you're light on scoring bodies with only 3 minimum troop selections. 15 Marines are not hard to down at this level.

Ah yes but remember each Space Wolf HQ slot allows you to take 2 HQs. Gotta love those quirky Space Wolves . See I hide the troops as best I can, also the Grey Hunters ride in the Achilles so they have a nice little rolling bunker. If you table your opponent you don't really have to worry about scoring units.

Was hoping for some more advice on the anti air situation.

Well remember, no one has Flakk missles, rulebook has it down as "some models have to option to upgrade to...."

so not much you can do there for AA

For the moment there's not yet a simple and easy anti-aircraft solution in both codex you choosed.

Delirious TL average-to-high ST high rate fire could be a temporary solution.

Psyammo dakka dreads + Long Fangs look's like a nice combo on paper but you'll must pay attention point wisely.

However, in the list as it is you alreay have two flyers, eventually the more reliable. Now-a-days, until the evolutions regarding flakk ammunition GW will update in the future, the best couters to flyers are other flyers.

If you'll may find the points consider eventually an Egida defense line equipped with Icarus Laser for just 85 pts. Even better with a Quad cannon for 100 pts.

Shouldn't be allowed, Logan hates the GKs and the GKs hate Logan.

After reading the rules i think the rules for sw hq only applies to it being the main force. However it is a grey area because the FAQ do not address allies at the moment. Also Logan and grey Knights get along just fine and have mutual respect for each other the one that Logan has has a problem with is the admistratom.

Toban wrote:For the moment there's not yet a simple and easy anti-aircraft solution in both codex you choosed.

Delirious TL average-to-high ST high rate fire could be a temporary solution.

Psyammo dakka dreads + Long Fangs look's like a nice combo on paper but you'll must pay attention point wisely.

However, in the list as it is you alreay have two flyers, eventually the more reliable. Now-a-days, until the evolutions regarding flakk ammunition GW will update in the future, the best couters to flyers are other flyers.

If you'll may find the points consider eventually an Egida defense line equipped with Icarus Laser for just 85 pts. Even better with a Quad cannon for 100 pts.

Good lord you are right, I had completely missed the paragraph that stated flyers can use the Skyfire rule. Thanks for pointing that out, heck now I think this list is good as is .

Given, unless I'm wrong "allied units aren't scoring units"
that leaves

5x Strike Squad w/ Deamon Hammer, Psycannon in a Razorback w/ TL Lascannon 200pts

5x Strike Squad w/ Deamon Hammer, Psycannon in a Razorback w/ TL Lascannon 200pts

In regards to capturing objectives and quaters, these guys die you essentially lose the game. Not a bad list for a meat grinder, though your one aerial is probably going to be out numbered when it comes to skyfire
my 1500pt list runs 3 razorwing fighters.

Sasa0mg wrote:Given, unless I'm wrong "allied units aren't scoring units"
that leaves

5x Strike Squad w/ Deamon Hammer, Psycannon in a Razorback w/ TL Lascannon 200pts

5x Strike Squad w/ Deamon Hammer, Psycannon in a Razorback w/ TL Lascannon 200pts

In regards to capturing objectives and quaters, these guys die you essentially lose the game. Not a bad list for a meat grinder, though your one aerial is probably going to be out numbered when it comes to skyfire
my 1500pt list runs 3 razorwing fighters.

Just checked the BRB an under scoring units it mentions that scoring units are normally troops listed in the FOC, unless they have specific rules that prevent them from scoring, kind of like Fenrisian Wolves with Canis, they are troops but can't hold objectives. Well the secondary ally detachment is part of the FOC so the Grey Hunters can score. With the air cover from the 2 Stormravens and their ability to destroy anything Str 10 the Grey Hunters should be pretty safe. The Strike squads are pretty squishy and between the Achilles and the 2 Storm Ravens I think the points used for the Lascannons on the Razorbacks might be better spent on an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor with psychic communion to try an get the Storm Ravens in on turn 2.

I'm not really sure that having the Flyers soon would be an advantage.

Honeslty I would really hope in "a turn after yous flyers" deployment. The first that pop in is the first to get shooted.

Toban wrote:I'm not really sure that having the Flyers soon would be an advantage.

Honeslty I would really hope in "a turn after yous flyers" deployment. The first that pop in is the first to get shooted.

That all depends on whether they are bringing flyers themselves. I am thinking of swapping the Lascannons on the Storm Ravens for Plasma Cannons. Between the Mindstrike Missiles, the Thunderfire Cannon, an the Plasma Cannons I would have some excellent horde control.


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Made a couple changes, dropped the TL Lascannons on the Razorbacks for Psybolt Razorbacks, dropped the Xenos Inquisitor for a Ordo Malleus Psychic Inquisitor dropped the Storm Shield/Thunderhammer on the Cav an Swapped the Frost Axes for Thunderhammers on the Battle Leaders and added 2 wolves a piece for each, remembered that I can Look out Sir any AP2 or Str10 (railguns or Ghost Arc) hits onto the wolves .

I can't wait to run this list. An as it stands I have 35 points to play around with.

Zathras wrote:Your allies list is illegal....you're only allowed 1 HQ in your allied force. I also feel that you're light on scoring bodies with only 3 minimum troop selections. 15 Marines are not hard to down at this level.

Space wolves get to take two HQ choices for each HQ slot in the FOC.


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GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:Shouldn't be allowed, Logan hates the GKs and the GKs hate Logan.

Yes. My thoughts exactly.

Stupid taint-sniffing inquisition.

Grugknuckle wrote: Automatically Appended Next Post:

GoDz BuZzSaW wrote:Shouldn't be allowed, Logan hates the GKs and the GKs hate Logan.

Yes. My thoughts exactly.

Stupid taint-sniffing inquisition.

I wouldn't call it hate, rather distrust. IMO Space Wolves are akin to Grey Knights in their absolute loathing of chaos. Russ left his children in Bjorn's hand to pursue and destroy the taint of chaos in the Eye of terror. Yes their are certain genetic differences in the Space Wolf geneseed, but no more than the Black Rage of the Blood Angels. Grey Knights while a part of the Inquisition are Astartes and as such will respect the Wolves of Fenris, it was after all the Lords of the Inquisitiona and the Administratum who sterilized and enslaved the non Astartes armies on Armageddon not the warriors of the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Malleus.

From Codex: Space Wolves after the battle.

They gave little more than a warrior's handshake to Grimnar and his Wolf Guard before departing in a storm of light.

I wouldn't call that hate, although the ensuing purging carried out by the Knights of Titan on orders from the Inquisition cost many more lives than Grimnar saved on Armageddon.

If you wanna knock on the allies matrix imagine Yarrick and Ghazghkull on the same field, allies or no chaos or no, they would kill everything in their path to destroy one another.

valace2 wrote:

Sasa0mg wrote:Given, unless I'm wrong "allied units aren't scoring units"
that leaves

5x Strike Squad w/ Deamon Hammer, Psycannon in a Razorback w/ TL Lascannon 200pts

5x Strike Squad w/ Deamon Hammer, Psycannon in a Razorback w/ TL Lascannon 200pts

In regards to capturing objectives and quaters, these guys die you essentially lose the game. Not a bad list for a meat grinder, though your one aerial is probably going to be out numbered when it comes to skyfire
my 1500pt list runs 3 razorwing fighters.

Just checked the BRB an under scoring units it mentions that scoring units are normally troops listed in the FOC, unless they have specific rules that prevent them from scoring, kind of like Fenrisian Wolves with Canis, they are troops but can't hold objectives. Well the secondary ally detachment is part of the FOC so the Grey Hunters can score. With the air cover from the 2 Stormravens and their ability to destroy anything Str 10 the Grey Hunters should be pretty safe. The Strike squads are pretty squishy and between the Achilles and the 2 Storm Ravens I think the points used for the Lascannons on the Razorbacks might be better spent on an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor with psychic communion to try an get the Storm Ravens in on turn 2.

----

Thats not true, they are in exception to your force organization chart.
Does your allied unit take one of your 0-2 HQ slots? No, does it take one of your 2-6 Troop slots? No, then it is in exception to your personal force organization chart.
Secondly im pretty positive it states with allies that they cannot be used as scoring units but I may be mistaken there. If you can use desperate and allies of convenience to score I find that utterly ridiculous, you've taken two armies that utterly hate each others guts and gotten them to score for each other? If its possible I would hope it falls under battlebrothers rulings for it.

Sasa0mg wrote:

valace2 wrote:

Sasa0mg wrote:Given, unless I'm wrong "allied units aren't scoring units"
that leaves

5x Strike Squad w/ Deamon Hammer, Psycannon in a Razorback w/ TL Lascannon 200pts

5x Strike Squad w/ Deamon Hammer, Psycannon in a Razorback w/ TL Lascannon 200pts

In regards to capturing objectives and quaters, these guys die you essentially lose the game. Not a bad list for a meat grinder, though your one aerial is probably going to be out numbered when it comes to skyfire
my 1500pt list runs 3 razorwing fighters.

Just checked the BRB an under scoring units it mentions that scoring units are normally troops listed in the FOC, unless they have specific rules that prevent them from scoring, kind of like Fenrisian Wolves with Canis, they are troops but can't hold objectives. Well the secondary ally detachment is part of the FOC so the Grey Hunters can score. With the air cover from the 2 Stormravens and their ability to destroy anything Str 10 the Grey Hunters should be pretty safe. The Strike squads are pretty squishy and between the Achilles and the 2 Storm Ravens I think the points used for the Lascannons on the Razorbacks might be better spent on an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor with psychic communion to try an get the Storm Ravens in on turn 2.

----

Thats not true, they are in exception to your force organization chart.
Does your allied unit take one of your 0-2 HQ slots? No, does it take one of your 2-6 Troop slots? No, then it is in exception to your personal force organization chart.
Secondly im pretty positive it states with allies that they cannot be used as scoring units but I may be mistaken there. If you can use desperate and allies of convenience to score I find that utterly ridiculous, you've taken two armies that utterly hate each others guts and gotten them to score for each other? If its possible I would hope it falls under battlebrothers rulings for it.

Thats because the FOC has changed, it now can be comprised of a primary and a secondary allied detachment. At over 2k points you can take a secondary primary detachment which would STILL be part of your FOC. Look it up Pg 109 big grey box in the right top corner right at the top of the box it says Force Organization Chart an underneath it sits Primary, then Secondary, an Fortifactions.
Well you find the rule that states allied troops can't score, because I have checked and no where does it state that allied troop units aren't scoring.

Also the "hatred" you describe must be coming out of the novels I just read on the warhammer Wiki about the Months of Shame. I don't put any stock in the novels, they twist things for their own purpose. As the details about the months of shame are not in the either Codex: Grey Knights or Codex: Space Wolves I can honestly say I believe them to be bunk.

Fluff comes out of the codex, not out of some book someone wrote.

Was thinking about using this list in future tourneys at 1850 I would have to drop the Achilles because its not allowed in tournaments, so what could I replace it with that would inspire that much dread? I could add in some more troops, but the achilles is a beast. I was thinking maybe Long Fangs an more Cav but I am not sure.

I would add in Saga of the Bear to one of the wolf lords. Give him a little eternal warrior protection to prevent insta-gibbing.

Instead of a second wolf lord on thundermount take a rune priest for psychic defense. They have maybe the second or third best in the game depending on how you look at it:

Elder with Runes of Warding
Tyranid Shadow of the Warp
Rune Priest runic weapon.

That would free up about 100 points or so. Add in a grand master instead of a inquisitor and getting a scoring dread or something else crazy special.

rogueeyes wrote:I would add in Saga of the Bear to one of the wolf lords. Give him a little eternal warrior protection to prevent insta-gibbing.

Instead of a second wolf lord on thundermount take a rune priest for psychic defense. They have maybe the second or third best in the game depending on how you look at it:

Elder with Runes of Warding
Tyranid Shadow of the Warp
Rune Priest runic weapon.

That would free up about 100 points or so. Add in a grand master instead of a inquisitor and getting a scoring dread or something else crazy special.

Maybe drop one of the Battle Leaders, buff the other Battle leader up to a Wolf Lord w/eternal warrior, take a Rune Priest an give the Grey Hunters a rhino for them all to ride in. Swap the Inquisitor for a GM, an take a Dread to cruise around in one of the Storm Ravens after making it scoring. I like hiding the Grey Hunters in the Achilles in the original list for late game objective grabbing, and the scoring dread could kind of fill that role.