Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I was thinking about the possibility of facing 6 squads of long fangs @ 2000 points. Or 6 psyflemen. Or 6 fill-in-the-blank . . .

What possible abuses to you guys anticipate? Am I just being paranoid?

I'm thinking as a GK player I'll do 2000 pts Draigowing and spend the other 2000 on Psyflemen and Stormravens,

Farsight bomb with crisis suits everywhere (35 max).

At 2 FOC the points become the limiting factor.

6 dreadnoughts cost just over 800 points. By the time you fill in the mandatory 4 troops and 2 hqs you won't have much of anything else left.

Phototoxin wrote:At 2 FOC the points become the limiting factor.

6 dreadnoughts cost just over 800 points. By the time you fill in the mandatory 4 troops and 2 hqs you won't have much of anything else left.

I agree with this. I don't have enough points to fill out one FoC, much less two.

I think the Orks will get the most use out of 2 FoCs.

676 points will get you:

Warboss with stuff

Big Mek with stuff

Deff Dread all claws

Boyz in trukk

Boyz in trukk

30 boyz

Nobz in there where needed.

Thats 33.3% of the 2000 points. Plenty of room for Dakkajetz and stuff.

2x Big Mek with Shokk Attack Gun 190
4x 10 Grots 160
90 Lootas 1350
15 Kannons 300

=2000

Should put a dent in most things, unless your opponent spams Land Raiders :/

Phototoxin wrote:At 2 FOC the points become the limiting factor.

6 dreadnoughts cost just over 800 points. By the time you fill in the mandatory 4 troops and 2 hqs you won't have much of anything else left.

Not with Draigowing:

1st FoC:
Draigo

5 paladins (Apothacary, 2 psycannons, 1 hammer, 4 halberds)
5 paladins (2 psycannons, warding stave, hammer, 3 halberds)

3 Psyfleman Dreads

3 stormravebs with MM/LC

Total: 2025

2nd FoC
Libby w/Warding Stave, 3 psychic powers

5 paladins (Apothacary, 2 psycannons, 1 hammer, 4 halberds)
5 paladins (2 psycannons, warding stave, hammer, 3 halberds)

3 Psyfleman Dreads

3 stormravebs with MM/LC

Total: 1970

ARMY TOTAL: 3995

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

Phototoxin wrote:At 2 FOC the points become the limiting factor.

6 dreadnoughts cost just over 800 points. By the time you fill in the mandatory 4 troops and 2 hqs you won't have much of anything else left.

Not with Draigowing:

1st FoC:
Draigo

5 paladins (Apothacary, 2 psycannons, 1 hammer, 4 halberds)
5 paladins (2 psycannons, warding stave, hammer, 3 halberds)

3 Psyfleman Dreads

3 stormravebs with MM/LC

Total: 2025

2nd FoC
Libby w/Warding Stave, 3 psychic powers

5 paladins (Apothacary, 2 psycannons, 1 hammer, 4 halberds)
5 paladins (2 psycannons, warding stave, hammer, 3 halberds)

3 Psyfleman Dreads

3 stormravebs with MM/LC

Total: 1970

ARMY TOTAL: 3995

Ok, but that's 4k points. Nothing is really balanced at APOC level. From my understanding, this topic is about the Double FoC at 2k.

Sasori wrote:

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

Phototoxin wrote:At 2 FOC the points become the limiting factor.

6 dreadnoughts cost just over 800 points. By the time you fill in the mandatory 4 troops and 2 hqs you won't have much of anything else left.

Not with Draigowing:

1st FoC:
Draigo

5 paladins (Apothacary, 2 psycannons, 1 hammer, 4 halberds)
5 paladins (2 psycannons, warding stave, hammer, 3 halberds)

3 Psyfleman Dreads

3 stormravebs with MM/LC

Total: 2025

2nd FoC
Libby w/Warding Stave, 3 psychic powers

5 paladins (Apothacary, 2 psycannons, 1 hammer, 4 halberds)
5 paladins (2 psycannons, warding stave, hammer, 3 halberds)

3 Psyfleman Dreads

3 stormravebs with MM/LC

Total: 1970

ARMY TOTAL: 3995

Ok, but that's 4k points. Nothing is really balanced at APOC level. From my understanding, this topic is about the Double FoC at 2k.

Well how many points are we talking about then? 2000 EXACTLY? 3000? I'm seriously asking here, I always need a ball park estimate before I start crafting lists...

Off the top of my head here is a GK flyer cheese list for 2000pts exactly

1st FoC

Libby with Warding Stave and 3 powers

5 GK Strike Squad (psycannon, MC Hammer)
5 GK Strike Squad (Psycannon, MC Hammer)

3 Stormravens with MM/LC and Extra Armor

2nd FoC

Librarian with Warding Stave and 3 powers

5 GK Strike Squad (Psycannon, MC Hammer)
5 GK Strike Squad (Psycannon, MC Hammer)

2 Stormravens with MM/LC and extra armor


TOTAL ARMY: 2000 pts exactly.

I now have 5 Stormravens on the field. Provided I can survive the one or two turns before they arrive, thatsa lot of pain I'm bringing to the table...

I would have no issues fighting a 5 stormraven list. Doesn't strike me as abusive at all.

Just thought of another list at 2k exactly:

1st FoC

Librarian with Warding Stave and 4 powers-205

5 GK Strike Squad (psycannon, hammer)-120
5 GK Strike Squad (psycannon, Hammer)-120

3 GK purgation squads with 4 Psycannons and hammer-555

2nd FoC

Librarian with Warding Stave and 4 powers-205

5 GK Strike Squad (psycannon, hammer)-120
5 GK Strike Squad (psycannon, Hammer)-120

3 GK purgation squads with 4 Psycannons-555

2000 pts exactly.

That comes out to 56 Strength 7 rending shots if they all move, 112 if they don't...

EDIT: Sorry, kept mistaking Psycanon with Incinerator, list fixed.

Warboss and 300+ Boys.
No-retreat wounds gone? Go on, try to kill them all.

big mek w/ KFF 85 *4 [340]

Deff Dread w/ Rokkits 100 * 10 (4 troops 6 heavys) [1000]

Remaining points of shoota boyz to cap objectives

Or if you prefer even more walker models

Meks*4 [340]
Deff Dread*4 [400] (troops)
Killa Kans squads w/ Rokkits 150*6 [900]
360 points left over for objective boyz.

You'd lose use of half the army at 1999 or less games, but man would that make walkers be fun.

The easiest army to break the FOC is GK with

Cortez 100
Henchmen 12
Henchmen 12
Henchmen 12
Henchmen 12
Second HQ

You are looking at the most 250 for all that. So that leaves you with 1750 of 6 psyrifle dreads or more pally madness.

Can we say Necron scarab farm? 18 Spiders generating 18 scarabs a turn for only 900 pts? Yes please! That's 18 MCs for 900 pts that will swarm the board.

Looks like the only problem with making 2nd FoC cheese lists will be actually AFFORDING to buy all the models...

6 units of Flamers plus the Masque (730 pts).
Goodbye footsloggers!

I'm more worried about the 6 units of wraiths. That'd be tough nut to crack with potentially 4 command barges that can still sweep attack fliers.

I think more people will play 1999 points just to maintain balance. Not much will have change building 1999 points list versus 2000 points list. It's always been petty hard to make a 2000 points flat list.

The new 2000points FoC will drastically change Ard Boyz tournament.

You mean that tournament that doesn't exist anymore?


Seriously, having a second FoC is a good thing. This game just didn't scale well to larger point levels. Having the second FoC adds options to alot of armies.

With 2 FoC's at 2000pts...


depending on, 650pts for troops and HQ to make the requirement

Any remaining divided however you want between troops and vendetta's

18x Hydra's 1350pts (thats 6 squadrons of 3)

That will fit fairly easily in 2000pts


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yes I know its an extreme example, probably not good for objectives but just to show it is possible and something similar is highly likely to just happen ;/

40k is turning into a card games with easily broken combos or "deck"lists. Pretty soon we'll need a ban list of things that can not be doubled in 2000pt games.

Every mentionable at 2000 points pretty much makes you TFG. 2000 points are hard to use effectively as aside from Tyranids (elites) most armies would have trouble maxing out options.

The only armies that might see significant use of it in a non broken/look at my net list way would be older books that eschew whole sections of their FOC when making armies anyway. Tau would take more units of suits, though not so many they couldnt of fielded then in a normal chart and Tyranids who are stuck with their elite section just being far to good in comparison to their other sections.

Most other armies deal with the issue of every slot being good or at least servicable. If your going to spam multiples of one type (GK for instance) your really doing nothing more than doing what the army can do anyway. You can take some of the more spectacular choices as troops and can take 6 psy dreads to boot.

I particularly like the ability to have more space at 2000 pts for armies like eldar who's good units are all stuffed into the heavy slot. (Ok they have other good stuff too) but its nice to not have to worry about only taking 3. Same goes with dark eldar. You can take more then just ravagers now. As it was hard to work in the flyers and ravagers.

Sasori wrote:I would have no issues fighting a 5 stormraven list. Doesn't strike me as abusive at all.

Note that you have to have at least one unit on the board at the end of each round, otherwise you've lost the battle.