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I'm starting 6th ed with a brand new army, Salamanders! I painted 1000 pts and this is a game I just played at a local store

Salamanders

HQ
Vulkan He'stan

Elite
6 sternguard veteran, powerfist, 5 combi melta 1 heavy flamer, drop pod

Troop
10 tac marines, powerfist, combi-flamer, flamer, multimelta, drop pod
10 tac marines, powerfist, combi-melta, flamer, multimelta, drop pod

Fast
Land speeder, multi melta, heavy flamer

Necrons

Overlord
Cryptek
10 Immortals
10 Warriors
Night Scythe
Lich Guard
Doomsday Ark

Mission: Purge the Alien
Deployment: dawn of war

He deployed all of is army except his night scythe and lich guards. His overlord is joining his immortals and his cryptek is with the warriors
I put everything on reserve including my land speeder
He went 1st

Turn 1 (Night)

There's no unit available as a target in the field, so he moved his Ark a little and ended his turn.
2 of my drop pods came to play, one with the veterans landed near his ark so I can shoot his rear with my veterans. The other one with Vulkan and a tac squad landed near the warriors. This is how the table looks like after I arrived



My veteran unleashed all 5 combi meltas to the ark's rear armor and sunk it, Vulkan and the tac squad's flamer was enough to burn down all the warriors into scrap metal allowing no ressurection rolls to be made.

I got 3 kills (ark, cryptek, warriors) and drew first blood, turn 1 ended 4-0

Turn 2

His night scythe arrived and his lich guards disembarked from it. His immortals and overlord made a quick work of my veterans, shooting them with s5 rapid fire, then assaulting. His night scythe arrived near my tac squad and managed to kill my flamer and bolter, my tac squad is down to 8 men. However hia lich guards arrived near my tac squad and was unable to assault.

My other tac squad arrived and so does the land speeder.

Vulkan and his tac squad shot at the lich guards and killed 1, the other tac squad shot at the lich guards as well and managed to kill another one. However, my land speeder blew out his night scythe with 1 lucky shot of multi melta. He revived 1 lich guard but after Vulkan and his squad assaulted, they were wiped out.

So by the end of turn 2, I have 2 tac squads, a land speeder and Vulkan. There were also 3 drop pods on his deployment area that most probably will give me linebreaker since he is now left with no anti-vehicle units. Just 1 overlord and the immortals squad. He conceded the game at the start of his 3rd turn.

Opinions
1. Drop pod army is better in 6th ed because you can disembark up to 6", therefore allowing you to shoot at a more desirable angle. Works great with flamer weapons and when you want to take down a vehicle from the rear.
2. The wounds allocation system in 6th ed makes everything dies quickly. Flamers with different AP can shoot without worrying the damage allocation.
3. Sub mission is a great way to get an edge over your opponent, especially when it's an annihilation mission.

Didnt think you could put everything in reserves anymore else you autolose?

Models and units that must start in reserve (such as all Daemons, Drop Pods and Fliers) do not count toward the 50% maximum that can start in reserve, and if they are dedicated transports, the unit they are dedicated to doesn't count either so long as they start inside it.

You only lose if there are no units of yours on the table at the end of any game turn, and since half of a Daemon army and Drop Pods are forced to arrive in the first turn, the only way they can lose on the first turn is if all the units that came in subsequently die.

That said, the OP's deployment was still illegal, since Vulkan, like all ICs, counts toward this limit regardless of whether or not he's with a unit, as does the Land Speeder, which means 100% of the units not forced to start in reserve are being kept in reserve, which is against the rules, and either Vulkan or the Speeder must have started on the table.

Noted, thanks.

But if I lose the land speeder, that would mean I can start completely in reserve right?

Avatar 720 wrote:That said, the OP's deployment was still illegal, since Vulkan, like all ICs, counts toward this limit regardless of whether or not he's with a unit

I disagree. If an IC joins a unit embarked in a Drop Pod, it then becomes a unit that must start in reserve so it doesn't add to the total. The "ICs are always counted as a single unit" only applies if the IC is not required to start in reserve.

In this case, the Speeder was the only non-podded unit so it was legit to keep it in reserves as well.

It specifically states in the Reserves section on pg 124 that ICs still count as their own unit, regardless of whether they have joined another unit or not.

Now you would be able to attach that IC to a squadron in a reserve unit and for all intensive purposes keep them there with that unit. However, Vulkan counts as his own unit and as you have five total units; As such with the reserve rules, you could only reserve three units (rounded up). Vulkan and the Land speeder would have to be kept out of reserves per the rules.

If you had two more units of some kind, you could put him in a drop pod. Alternatively, you could drop (harhar) a drop pod and then swap that unit around for reserving Vulkan.

Amerikon wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:That said, the OP's deployment was still illegal, since Vulkan, like all ICs, counts toward this limit regardless of whether or not he's with a unit

I disagree. If an IC joins a unit embarked in a Drop Pod, it then becomes a unit that must start in reserve so it doesn't add to the total. The "ICs are always counted as a single unit" only applies if the IC is not required to start in reserve.

The drop pod is not dedicated to the IC, and so he cannot claim to be part of the unit that must start in reserve in the same way that the unit it is dedicated to can. The rule states that ICs count towards the limit "regardless of whether they have joined another unit or not". The fact that he has joined a squad in their drop pod does not make him exempt from this in the same way that it makes the unit itself exempt, otherwise it would not be following the above rule.

In this case, the Speeder was the only non-podded unit so it was legit to keep it in reserves as well.

What percentage of the units that are not forced to start in reserve, are starting in reserve if you only have a sinle unit that fits that category? 100%. So no, even if the IC was able to start in the drop pod the Land Speeder must still have been deployed.

We went over this in another thread, the drop pod isnt dedicated to the character, if your playing a full droppod list then technicaly the only HQ you can take is the captain/chaptermaster (i forget which) that actually says he can take a pod

Avatar 720 wrote:

Amerikon wrote:In this case, the Speeder was the only non-podded unit so it was legit to keep it in reserves as well.

What percentage of the units that are not forced to start in reserve, are starting in reserve if you only have a sinle unit that fits that category? 100%. So no, even if the IC was able to start in the drop pod the Land Speeder must still have been deployed.

50% of your units, rounded up, can be reserved. If you have one unit, then half of your units, rounded up, is one unit.

Avatar 720 wrote:

Amerikon wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:That said, the OP's deployment was still illegal, since Vulkan, like all ICs, counts toward this limit regardless of whether or not he's with a unit

I disagree. If an IC joins a unit embarked in a Drop Pod, it then becomes a unit that must start in reserve so it doesn't add to the total. The "ICs are always counted as a single unit" only applies if the IC is not required to start in reserve.

The drop pod is not dedicated to the IC, and so he cannot claim to be part of the unit that must start in reserve in the same way that the unit it is dedicated to can. The rule states that ICs count towards the limit "regardless of whether they have joined another unit or not". The fact that he has joined a squad in their drop pod does not make him exempt from this in the same way that it makes the unit itself exempt, otherwise it would not be following the above rule.

I agree that that's a plausible interpretation, but there is some ambiguity in the rule. If you have to deploy in reserves (like a Drop Pod does) you don't count towards the limit. If I attach an IC to a unit in a pod he now is required to deploy in reserves, so even though he counts as a separate unit, it's a unit that doesn't count (if that makes sense ).

That same situation would apply to a unit that is deployed in a non-dedicated flyer. The flyer must be reserved, by deploying the unit with the flyer that unit now must be reserved. So it's just a question of precedence. Additionally what do you do if you deploy a Pod separately from the unit that bought it? Do they now count as separate units?

There is 0 ambiguity whatsoever. The IC is counted regardless of any units he is with, so despite deploying him with a unit that must stay in reserve, he still counts, since the fact he is with such a unit is diregarded, and he will count.

Nothing in the rules allows you to ignore this, you are assuming the fact he's with the pod unit does, which is wrong.

Note about linebreaker:

Unit must be scoring or a unit that is a denial unit. This prevents a lot of people form claiming linebreaker.

On topic, that is an interesting fight. We need some close up picks of those salamanders, they look great!

Also the cryptek is not its own unit so you cant claim an extra victory point for it.

It doesn't help that the 'cron list is pretty bad. At 1000 points you cant really justify the 300pt Lychguard + Night Scythe or the Doomsday Ark for 175. You can almost take 3 barges instead of the ark. For 300 points you can get an almost fully loaded wraith unit (6 Wraiths 6xPistols, for the extra attack, 4xWhip coils).

Also if you know your opponent is going drop pod why on earth would you not castle in a corner. Hell just looking at the other guys list I would've put terrain in corners just to put some space between my guys and the drop pods. That doomsday ark should've at least had it's rear to the board edge.

Agree that Necron list is pretty poor. Since 6th launched I have seen a lot of battle reps with kinda poor Necron lists getting wrecked by assorted armies. I think with all the hype lately around Necrons being insane good we are seeing a lot of newer players and people who are experimenting in builds. I keep seeing people taking Lychguard and they need to get they are one of the worst units in the codex right now. I hope at some point people realize how strong shooting is in 6th and start building shooting heavy Necron lists.