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I have been collecting warhammer 40k for years but i have only just started getting into a competitive scene. i have played a hand full of friendly games on the kitchen table but i played a guy at his gaming club who plays dark eldar today, and i left with my tail between my legs.

i think the first problem i had, was not understanding other armys special rules. i mean the guy said his Hq model which im sure he called aracron or something had a 2+ inv save!!! i didnt have much luck with abbadon against him as he rolled a 1 too and didnt get to attack at all in the first round and some how his 8 wyches attacked first on my berzerkers and i lost 4 of them. my deamon prince, he said isnt a charachter that can join other units in close combat? so his assult phase had to be resolved separatly and all in all i just stood there whilst it seemed he royalie BEAT me. i dont even know half the stuff he was saying was true or not. i just accepted he knew the rules better than me and agreed for him to wipe my units off the board.

i mean should a unit of dark eldar really rip apart a unit of which consists of nearly double the points?

NOTE FROM THE MODERATORS: Please avoid use of profanity or sexual references inappropriate for a PG-13 audience. This is a Dakka rule, which you agree to when you make your account. -Mannahnin

Sooooo...

First things first, ask questions if you don't know what your opponents got.

Taking abbadon was your first step to losing, he's got "shiny" written all over him, but he's not worth it.

If you only had 4 berzerkers killed, you should have still had swings, dice don't always work.

The other guy doesn't understand how to assault. Your demon prince could have assaulted provided he had range and could reach base to base contact.

Dark eldar are a tricky army to play, and if you know what you are doing, easy to play against. Simply toss plasma at the archon until it dies, he can only roll his 2+ invul until it fails, and since plasma is str 7 and he's toughness 3... instant death when he fails ones.

A properly charged unit that is attacked by a squad of witches with an attached archon tends to either kill the target or make short work of most of the unit.

There are a lot of rules in this game, and it's entirely possible to lose badly, even when using more points than the other guy, if you don't understand them and use them correctly.

The is especially likely if either A) The other guy DOES know them well, and uses them to his advantage, or B) The other guy uses your ignorance to allow him to break the rules.

We don't know exactly what happened here, as obviously we've just got one side of the story and are not entirely clear on all the details, but it could be either of the above.

In either case the best move is to be polite and mature in the store, then use your rulebooks and access to forums like this to find out what the units involved really do and how the rules in question really work, so you can figure out how to play it correctly and give yourself a better chance to win next time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let's break down the info you've provided in your post.

i mean the guy said his Hq model which im sure he called aracron or something had a 2+ inv save!!!

DE HQs can take a Shadowfield, which gives them a 2+ invul save UNTIL it's failed once. Then it goes away. they're also T3. So if he rolled a 1 to save against Abby's S8 attacks, that first failed save will kill the Archon due to Instant Death. So it's nasty, but not unstoppable.

i didnt have much luck with abbadon against him as he rolled a 1 too and didnt get to attack at all in the first round

Well, that's the downside of the daemon weapon. When that happens against another nasty HtH model, you're probably going to lose that round.

i and some how his 8 wyches attacked first on my berzerkers and i lost 4 of them.

Yep, Wyches have really high Initiative. On their downside, they only have base S3 and T3 (though their Combat Drugs give them a random boost each game, which can be +1S). They're base WS4, so unless they roll the +1WS drug you're hitting them on a 3+, and either way they need a 4+ to hit your Berserkers. Aside from the squad leader, none of the wyches get power weapons, so they shouldn't inflict a huge number of casualties on berserkers; this will in part come down to how well you roll on your saves.

i my deamon prince, he said isnt a charachter that can join other units in close combat? so his assult phase had to be resolved separatly and all in all i just stood there

Not sure exactly what happened here, but I can take a guess.

A DP is not an Independent Character, and thus is not allowed to join a squad. If you were moving him up next to Abby's unit of Berserkers, and thought you had joined them, that may be your point of confusion. If your opponent then charged the Berserker unit, which had Abby joined, and DIDN'T choose to multiassault into the DP, then the DP would not participate in the combat at all that round. You could charge him in the following round, though.

Is that what happened?

ROOKIE RAGE!!!!!!!!

Seriously, very few units in this game are "unbeatable" and even if they are, a lascannon blast to the face will fix that. Learn the game.

yeah all very good points from all. and true solo falcon but we werent born with the knowledge of the rules. you can read them over and over again but until you put them into practice i feel they go in one eye and out the other. this isnt my only hobby and i do have other things i have to divide my time to. we all have to start somewhere.

mannahnin, that is what happened. it seems youve cleared up all the issues very well. i just didnt want to kick up a fuss in the club and look like a rookie. i kinda just nodded my head every time another unit died and just pretended to know the rules, in which i kind of do, its just knowing the other armies rules which kind of kept knocking me off my stride, he kept coming up with these special rules that kept ruining my next plan of what i was expecting to do next.

it was a good learning curve today i mean it must have been my 10th battle to date and probably my last 5th ed game . the next lot of games im plaing in the future will be 6th ed. Great another rule book i have to look at now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

juraigamer wrote:



Taking abbadon was your first step to losing, he's got "shiny" written all over him, but he's not worth it.

True. i just felt like bringing an element of surprise to the table. everyone always expects a cheese list and equipts an army list to deal with it.

i have been successful with abbadon in the past in friendly games but only against orks and guard. i thought i had enough on the table to distract fire away from him,with having a landraider full of chosen 2 squads of obliterators a deamon prince a rhino of plagues and a rhino of zerkers but after his first turn he swmped my whole army, he took out both my squads of obliterators, with them dark lancer things mounted on them stupid looking pirate ships. He had my deamon prince down to 2 wound shooting at him with that 12 shot gun from the venom. Popped the landrainder with a lance gun ( reducing armour to 12). also doing the same to my khorne rhino leaving abadon my chosen and berzerkers all stranded surounded by their destroyed tanks then assulted by arcron and his whimpy looking wych's after travling basically 40 inchs or somthing like that distance because the have some fleet of foot bull sh** !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

DE are a tough matchup for Chaos in 5th (bit early to tell for 6th), as we don't have much long range shooting, and it's hugely helpful to be able to knock down some of their paper-armored skimmers from across the table before they A) Can shoot for multiple turns, or B) Carry nasty assault units into you. The more points we spend on expensive assault units, usually the less we have to shoot down the paper planes.

Wait, hold the phone: A bunch of Dark Eldar rapped with your Khorne Berserkers and Daemon Prince? Was it a rap battle, or a collab? I'd definitely buy the Kharne the Beat-layer ft. Archon's Bitchezz single.

Brother SRM wrote:Wait, hold the phone: A bunch of Dark Eldar rapped with your Khorne Berserkers and Daemon Prince? Was it a rap battle, or a collab? I'd definitely buy the Kharne the Beat-layer ft. Archon's Bitchezz single.

lmfao on toilet. funny stuff.

Sebbyp538 wrote:on toilet

You really didn't need to share that.

As for not knowing the rules, you could always ask to have a quick glance at your opponents codex before the game and ask what's what.

Brother SRM wrote:Wait, hold the phone: A bunch of Dark Eldar rapped with your Khorne Berserkers and Daemon Prince? Was it a rap battle, or a collab? I'd definitely buy the Kharne the Beat-layer ft. Archon's Bitchezz single.

Please can I sig this?

In addition, as everyone else has already said, the better you know the rules the more likely you are to do well as you can understand exactly what each unit does, and how to counter it. This is especially true if you say you're interested in going competitive, where you really need to have an excellent grasp on the rules and all of the little intricacies within if you hope to do well.

juraigamer wrote:

Taking abbadon was your first step to losing, he's got "shiny" written all over him, but he's not worth it.

Umm, yes he is. Or at least was before becoming ap3 in combat. Even then, he's still good as long as you keep him away from terminators.

Yeah, I am pretty sure this was a fluke of the dice there, and even then I am uncertain if this was actually legal, based your your descriptions.

But generally Arcons and wytches are really good at killing characters, and you just happened to be extremely lucky. I personally dont hate Abby as much as people here seem to, sometimes having one of the most killy units in the game is worth it, but generally NOT against any version of Eldar.