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With he new 36" turboboost, the 4+ jink save (from skilled rider) and HoW attacks, do you think that Shining Spears have made a comeback and are now useable in 6th, or are they still just as useless as cc has been nerfed?

I would be really interested in Dakka´s opinion on this unit

Well, they are more useful than in 5th ed, since piling in has been reduced to 3''. This will eventually only bring part of the enemy unit into range for swinging back.
A 2nd basic attack would be useful.

wuestenfux wrote:Well, they are more useful than in 5th ed, since piling in has been reduced to 3''. This will eventually only bring part of the enemy unit into range for swinging back.
A 2nd basic attack would be useful.

More attacks would always be useful, but at least they get HoW now.

What makes them interesting however is the 4+ jink save. If you join a fortune seer to the unit, you get something that is nearly as survivable as a jet-seer council for much less points, as the spears are 10 points cheaper than the warlocks..

Khe-Loc wrote:

wuestenfux wrote:Well, they are more useful than in 5th ed, since piling in has been reduced to 3''. This will eventually only bring part of the enemy unit into range for swinging back.
A 2nd basic attack would be useful.

More attacks would always be useful, but at least they get HoW now.

What makes them interesting however is the 4+ jink save. If you join a fortune seer to the unit, you get something that is nearly as survivable as a jet-seer council for much less points, as the spears are 10 points cheaper than the warlocks..

In fact, joining a FortuneSeer is actually a good idea. This unit could zoom down a flank and threaten some shooty enemy units in the backfield.

AS with any unit its ENTIRELY dependant on the list the Spears are being used in, and the synergy of the units the spears are being used with.

With a seer council, Withdraw, and MULTIPLE spear units, Council Jetbikes, and GuardianJetbikes, I see this unit being VERY usable in 6th edition.

Smitty0305 wrote:AS with any unit its ENTIRELY dependant on the list the Spears are being used in, and the synergy of the units the spears are being used with.

With a seer council, Withdraw, and MULTIPLE spear units, Council Jetbikes, and GuardianJetbikes, I see this unit being VERY usable in 6th edition.

You mean a council and 2 spear units? That would get quite expensive points wise, wouldn´t it?

Yea that would leave little of anything to shoot with. Everything would be assaulting on bikes. I do like the idea though ad would love to see it on the table.

combine the jinx save and the turbo and you get a 3++ for even more fun!

Did you guys notice that the shining spear box set on the GW homepage went missing?

Apparently you can only order the single model blister pack anymore o.O

Does anyone of you know something about them being redone in fincast? Or may the new codex be here much sooner than we thought..

This could be a sign that there will be new models. If so, they will definitely be in finecast making them even more expensive. I still have 6 models and will definitely use them with an accompanied Fortuneseer.

wuestenfux wrote:This could be a sign that there will be new models. If so, they will definitely be in finecast making them even more expensive. I still have 6 models and will definitely use them with an accompanied Fortuneseer.

Maybe a new plastic kit? I wouldn't even dare to hope, but maybe...

I hope it's plastic. Don't feel like sinking in a ridiculous amount of money into singing spears just to have a decent unit.

Lord Rogukiel wrote:I hope it's plastic. Don't feel like sinking in a ridiculous amount of money into singing spears just to have a decent unit.

Yeah... I know what you mean... However it would fit into my jetbike army really well -.- we´ll see

You can only have 5 in a unit though, which causes problems with large packs of enemies as a target. You can only get so many attacks from 5 models unless you start adding in characters...

Also, unlike a council, you are very reliant on getting the charge. If something doesn't go as planned and you get assaulted, you need something else to come in and save you.

Actually if these guys get caught in a fight they dont want to be stuck in, they can use withdraw to bail out.

Those are 5 MEQs. It would be miracle if anybody would survive an unwanted fight. There is just no way around 1 base attack.
I agree that if you want to use SS, your whole army must keep up and be close and personal. Without this, it's ~200 suicide squad that won't make it's point back and won't stall enemy for too long.

Khe-Loc wrote:With he new 36" turboboost, the 4+ jink save (from skilled rider) and HoW attacks, do you think that Shining Spears have made a comeback and are now useable in 6th, or are they still just as useless as cc has been nerfed?

I would be really interested in Dakka´s opinion on this unit

To make a comeback, they would have to have been good at some point.... easy joke is easy .

Ok, now lets see if I can muster something that actually contributes to the convo.

SS are definitely better than they were, but they are still a bit pricey. It is really going to depend on what the new meta turns out to be as to whether you can afford them or not. The biggest problem the aging CW:E codex faces is inflated points cost from 4th ed. While smitty's got a fun idea with a seer council and a unit/2 of SS for overwhelming assaults, just fielding those units means your army won't have enough points to back it up. Haven't read through the rulebook very closely, but if the lances count as AP 2 a single unit could be used as a terminator hunter squad (as it looks like banshees did actually manage to get worse) to leave your harly's free to munch other things in a foot list.

TLDR: To expensive still to take enough units to have survivability through redundancy. 15 HoW PW attacks on the charge is nice, but even a re-rollable 4++ won't allow you to tank an entire turn of small arms fire from your opponent with just 5 models.

If you want to make them work you can, and should have a ton of fun with it (I always loved them, they've just been to over priced to use). If/when you try this, think about bringing a DE ally, so you can give them the Baron and a fortune seer, and a full squad of Hellions as backup (Baron makes them a troop choice for you). Hellions very nicely compliment the second biggest weakness (after being overpriced) of SS's, which is small squad size. Plus, wound allocation shenanigans with Baron's 2++ Re-rollable save to make your SS's stupidly resilient.

They appear to have unusual power weapons on the turn they charge, which would make them S6 AP3... not really filling the hole left by the new banshees.

My guess, a Shining Spear/Guardian Jet Bike plastic kit. Maybe with the Shining Spear bits being Finecast.

Falconlance wrote:They appear to have unusual power weapons on the turn they charge, which would make them S6 AP3... not really filling the hole left by the new banshees.

Ew, you are correct. Really wanted to go to the book and say you were wrong, but AP3, S6 it is. No Termi hunting for them.

Dash2021 wrote:

Falconlance wrote:They appear to have unusual power weapons on the turn they charge, which would make them S6 AP3... not really filling the hole left by the new banshees.

Ew, you are correct. Really wanted to go to the book and say you were wrong, but AP3, S6 it is. No Termi hunting for them.

Thats actually rather dissapointing, as that would have made them much more viable than they are now...

It's ok! We can still use non-overheating star cannons to take down termies!

Lord Rogukiel wrote:It's ok! We can still use non-overheating star cannons to take down termies!

True, but starcannons can get very expensive rather fast if you take too many -.-

Yeah, note the sarcastic orkmoticon at the end of my sentence.

I actually put TL starcannons on my waveserpent back when I was just starting Eldar, might actually be useful now

Lord Rogukiel wrote:Yeah, note the sarcastic orkmoticon at the end of my sentence.

I actually put TL starcannons on my waveserpent back when I was just starting Eldar, might actually be useful now

Oh... yeah right, I totally notice now

Still not sure if starcannons will actually benefit us in any way till the new codex

It would be nice if our non- over heating plasma could be S7. Or god even just S6.... But were more advanced and it doesnt burn us.... but it isnt that strong? lol

Razgriz22 wrote:It would be nice if our non- over heating plasma could be S7. Or god even just S6.... But were more advanced and it doesnt burn us.... but it isnt that strong? lol

Well, I guess they are better than they were in 5th, right^^

With the nerf to cover and the improvement of ap2 (also the points we save by not taking holofields) maybe it wouldn't be that bad to use starcannons .... Omg I can't believe I just said that o.O

Fingers crossed that starcannons get their third shot rightfully returned in the next book...

Haha I know right? I feels very odd to write Starcannon on my FOC. It just seems so much easier to write Scatter Laser lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Falconlance wrote:Fingers crossed that starcannons get their third shot rightfully returned in the next book...

That would make them amazing. Well good. But compared to what they are.... amazing. Pew Pew.... Pew. I like the sound of that third shot

Razgriz22 wrote:Haha I know right? I feels very odd to write Starcannon on my FOC. It just seems so much easier to write Scatter Laser lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Falconlance wrote:Fingers crossed that starcannons get their third shot rightfully returned in the next book...

That would make them amazing. Well good. But compared to what they are.... amazing. Pew Pew.... Pew. I like the sound of that third shot

A third shot would surely be nice^^