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Two rule levels, basic and complex.
Not confusing.
Updated at least every 6 months in PDF
Free to download if possible, dont care if black and white.
Illustrations or photos
Not too big in pages (look at FUBAR and Kings of War)
Listen to the community, not like you know who.
Not expensive, not like you know who.
Keep up the fight!
2012/07/09 04:32:06
Subject: Re:[General] What do you want in a ruleset?
In all my years of gaming I have come to realize that the main ruleset is usually not the problem. It is the army list/ special rules section of the rulebook that usually kills any semblance of balance and common sense. In short, I want a ruleset devoid of minmaxing, rock, paper, scissors style meta and overpowered/underpriced units, combos, heros etc. Maybe I should just stick to chess.
2012/07/09 16:32:27
Subject: Re:[General] What do you want in a ruleset?
LOL, miniature gaming in not easy to have a close to perfect rules.
When I started in 40K two years ago I use to think the rules were really balanced, but that is not true. I think Infinity is the closest you can get in balance refering to famous games, but there might be a very well balanced gaming out there I never played.
Personally, though, I prefer clear rules, and very little stacking or complex interactions of abilities.
This helps both balancing as well as introduction of the game tactics to new players, as opposed to complex, layered rule interactions. While I appreciate that WMH is actually incredibly well-balanced for such a game, that level of interaction complexity makes it, at best, hard for a new player to anticipate what his opponent might be able to do, and at worst it can allow an unforseen rules complement or interaction to completely change the game in undesired ways.
Imagine the feeling when you position your tanks, engines idling, landing gear deployed for a low profile, with firing solutions along a key bottleneck. Then some fether lands a dreadnought behind them in a giant heat shielded coke can.
What I prefer depends alot on the scale and genre of game that I'm going to play, but in the most general terms, I'm looking for...
1) Streamlined, easy to learn ruleset. I want to be able to learn most of the game in 30 minutes on my own, and be able to teach it to a new player to at least a basic level of understanding in 15 minutes.
2) As few stats as possible for each unit and succinct special rules.
3) Something other than plain IGOUGO. I'll play IGOUGO, but I prefer something a bit different, be it, rolls for activation, alternating unit activation, or somesuch.
4) Playing time of 30-90 minutes. Ideally between 40 and 60
5) Both supplied army lists and a mechanic for creating your own units. I've been gaming too long and have too many miniatures to be forced into buying what some company tells me the game needs.
6) Some sort of company interaction, via a web forum or mailing list.
7) Moderately priced. I'm more than happy to support indie game designers, but I'm not going to pay GW prices for a book and then a codex and then a....
8) No counters. I hate the way counters muck up the visual appeal of a game.
9) I'd prefer that it be available in PDF and print. For larger and well produced games, I see the value of a print book, but for lower page count games, I'd rather just get a PDF and print it myself.
The above criteria is mostly why I like games like Song of Blades, Warpath, Warengine, etc...
Creation rules...the ability to use any miniature you want is huge.
In the case of a game that has fluff and related armies its nice to be able to tweak them a bit. Say someone likes most of an army, but really wishes that XXX unit could do XXXX better...the ability to change that legally within the rules system is great.
Whats my game?
Warmachine (Cygnar)
10/15mm mecha
Song of Blades & Heroes
Blackwater Gulch
X wing
Open to other games too
Capt. Camping wrote:Two rule levels, basic and complex. Not confusing. Updated at least every 6 months in PDF Free to download if possible, dont care if black and white. Illustrations or photos Not too big in pages (look at FUBAR and Kings of War) Listen to the community, not like you know who. Not expensive, not like you know who.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mad4Minis wrote:Creation rules...the ability to use any miniature you want is huge.
In the case of a game that has fluff and related armies its nice to be able to tweak them a bit. Say someone likes most of an army, but really wishes that XXX unit could do XXXX better...the ability to change that legally within the rules system is great.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eilif wrote:What I prefer depends alot on the scale and genre of game that I'm going to play, but in the most general terms, I'm looking for...
1) Streamlined, easy to learn ruleset. I want to be able to learn most of the game in 30 minutes on my own, and be able to teach it to a new player to at least a basic level of understanding in 15 minutes.
2) As few stats as possible for each unit and succinct special rules.
3) Something other than plain IGOUGO. I'll play IGOUGO, but I prefer something a bit different, be it, rolls for activation, alternating unit activation, or somesuch.
4) Playing time of 30-90 minutes. Ideally between 40 and 60
5) Both supplied army lists and a mechanic for creating your own units. I've been gaming too long and have too many miniatures to be forced into buying what some company tells me the game needs.
6) Some sort of company interaction, via a web forum or mailing list.
7) Moderately priced. I'm more than happy to support indie game designers, but I'm not going to pay GW prices for a book and then a codex and then a....
8) No counters. I hate the way counters muck up the visual appeal of a game.
9) I'd prefer that it be available in PDF and print. For larger and well produced games, I see the value of a print book, but for lower page count games, I'd rather just get a PDF and print it myself.
The above criteria is mostly why I like games like Song of Blades, Warpath, Warengine, etc...
All of the above.
*cough* *cough*
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2012/07/17 05:37:38
I'm thinking of doing up a system where a standard match would consist of 3-5 fast paced games. As the games progress, units gain upgrades such as veteran status or feild modifications etc which carry over to the next game until the end of the match. What are some of your thoughts on this? How do most of you feel about TLOS?
Sounds alright but you'd need to balance it so anyone who wins 2-3 games in a row doesn't automatically dominate the following matches. Perhaps give all non-winners a flat bonus of some kind, and allow the winner to pick from the upgrades you mentioned?
As for TLOS, it heavily depends on the terrain on the board. TLOS with good blocking terrain and nice full forests, bushes, etc. is fine. TLOS with the occasional building, lots of ruins, and "forests" consisting of only 2-4 trees makes for an annoying game.
Imagine the feeling when you position your tanks, engines idling, landing gear deployed for a low profile, with firing solutions along a key bottleneck. Then some fether lands a dreadnought behind them in a giant heat shielded coke can.
darkPrince010 wrote:Sounds alright but you'd need to balance it so anyone who wins 2-3 games in a row doesn't automatically dominate the following matches. Perhaps give all non-winners a flat bonus of some kind, and allow the winner to pick from the upgrades you mentioned?
As for TLOS, it heavily depends on the terrain on the board. TLOS with good blocking terrain and nice full forests, bushes, etc. is fine. TLOS with the occasional building, lots of ruins, and "forests" consisting of only 2-4 trees makes for an annoying game.
Its almost worth trying a system where instead of designating an area as "forest" you simply place a bunch of trees, and if they interfere with LOS then a bonus (or penalty depending on the system) is given. Movement would require going around the individual trees.
Whats my game?
Warmachine (Cygnar)
10/15mm mecha
Song of Blades & Heroes
Blackwater Gulch
X wing
Open to other games too
Eilif wrote:What I prefer depends alot on the scale and genre of game that I'm going to play, but in the most general terms, I'm looking for...
1) Streamlined, easy to learn ruleset. I want to be able to learn most of the game in 30 minutes on my own, and be able to teach it to a new player to at least a basic level of understanding in 15 minutes.
Spoiler:
2) As few stats as possible for each unit and succinct special rules.
3) Something other than plain IGOUGO. I'll play IGOUGO, but I prefer something a bit different, be it, rolls for activation, alternating unit activation, or somesuch.
4) Playing time of 30-90 minutes. Ideally between 40 and 60
5) Both supplied army lists and a mechanic for creating your own units. I've been gaming too long and have too many miniatures to be forced into buying what some company tells me the game needs.
6) Some sort of company interaction, via a web forum or mailing list.
7) Moderately priced. I'm more than happy to support indie game designers, but I'm not going to pay GW prices for a book and then a codex and then a....
8) No counters. I hate the way counters muck up the visual appeal of a game.
9) I'd prefer that it be available in PDF and print. For larger and well produced games, I see the value of a print book, but for lower page count games, I'd rather just get a PDF and print it myself.
The above criteria is mostly why I like games like Song of Blades, Warpath, Warengine, etc...
All of the above.
I like TM also, play it from time to time with my club, and even painted up a whole Ventauran Reinforced Platoon for the game but my top priority is Streamlined and easy to teach. TM is a tough game to learn and teach.
*cough*
Spoiler:
*cough*
Squidmanlolz wrote:I'm thinking of doing up a system where a standard match would consist of 3-5 fast paced games. As the games progress, units gain upgrades such as veteran status or feild modifications etc which carry over to the next game until the end of the match. What are some of your thoughts on this? How do most of you feel about TLOS?
This is pretty much the Song of Blades and Heroes model. As long as you stick to one on one games (multiplayer games take longer) you can get 2-4 games completed in 1.5-3 hours, including between-game figuring of advances and experience. At my club we like to take our time an just hang out, so we do 2 games per night, but It's very possible to do a full campaign in an afternoon or long evening.
Capt. Camping wrote:I think terrain size is important too. I consider 3x3 for 15mm and 4x4 the best standard for 28mm, the 6x4 is for large army games.
I think you mean Table size, which is a good consideration, but only if you take into account the scope of the game. Scope of the game is as -or more- important than scale.
For example, 28mm warband skirmish such as Song of Blades can easily be resolved on a 3x3 table. At the other end of the "scale" (pun intended) larger games of Future War commander in 10mm or 6mm may require a 3x4, 4x4 or even larger size table.
Table size is a part of the ruleset, but as I have reasonably large table (4x7) it doesn't make it onto my list of "what I want in a ruleset" except to say that the tablesize should fit the scope of rules.
Eilif wrote:What I prefer depends alot on the scale and genre of game that I'm going to play, but in the most general terms, I'm looking for...
3) Something other than plain IGOUGO. I'll play IGOUGO, but I prefer something a bit different, be it, rolls for activation, alternating unit activation, or somesuch.
It really is that simple. A base rule set that can be very simple, taught in a few minutes, and the very basic game played quickly.
And then, you can add as much ridiculousness as you can think of. Sure, you can do Battletech with simple tech, standard units, on basic mapsheets. And that is still very fun.
But there are rules to make your fully customized, munchkinized beatstick fighting others of the same caliber, balanced by Battle Value and altering pilots while those machines fight on the surface of a wet navy battleship firing it's guns (even at them!) in the middle of a hurricane with tornadoes made out of BUGS. And fighting off swarms of dragon riding infantry and kangaroo based infantry, with aeorspace fighters doing bombing runs while vehicles go zipping around.
Battletech: Accept whatever the hell you want. We've got rules for it. But you don't have to use them if you don't want to. And the basic game has had only minor changes in the 27 years it has been around.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/23 23:29:44
27th Member of D.O.O.M.F.A.R.T.
Resident Battletech Guru.
Simple rules....by that i mean, if my character/unit is making a ranged attack...don't give me a 'they hold their rifles to the shoulder, take aim, steady their breating, squeeze the trigger and feel recoil'....just give me 'roll/flip X, and note the value shown. If x is equal to or higher than targets' y then it hits'
I am quickly becoming a fan of games like hell dorado, malifaux and warmahordes because their rulebooks arent that huge, the rules are pretty simple to get through, and each model comes with visual aids to help your games out (usually a character card)
Hive Fleet Aquarius 2-1-0
*cough*
