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In 6th with templates...

Can you only ever wound those models that are under the template? So then only those models can take the saves? If so, do you have a page ref for this.

In which circumstances would it be possible to wound any other model other than those under the Template is the better question here, no?

You wound what you aim for.

I get what your saying, but it doesn't say that in the rule book. It only says you hit those models. It doesn't say who gets wounded. If it is like regular shooting you remove the closest, not those under the template, but it doesn't say that. It also doesn't say you only take the saves on models under the template. We played this way today because my opp had that understanding of it. It may be right, but I just can't find a reference to this.

In fact on second glance it says template weapons allocate woulds using the normal method (p.52)

It pretty much speaks for itself mate. You place the Template over the model your targeting, precisely over its centre and not arcing any which way as to gain advantage. Once the target is selected, place the template as stated.
Then any model that is sat beneath the template is hit as normal.

That's the whole point behind templates. You can't place the template over a model and decide that a model that's not under the template is wounded, thus potentially killing off whatever models you feel like.
The same goes for the opposing player. He can't cherry-pick who is hit, that's determined by the template. So, always make sure you're targeting what you want to kill.

Edit: I'm also looking at p52 right now. "Any models fully or partially under the template are hit."
Thus these are the models taking the saves and the wounds.

Edit 2: Just for an example.
I fire a template weapon that hits dead on, hitting 2 Marines with heavy Weapons. Both wound and the opposing player fails his saves.
Opposing player doesn't want to lose his Heavy Weapons and so cherry picks two regular Marines from the edge of the unit that weren't underneath the template.

See how that'd be fair?

I understand what your saying, but heres where I think it gets fuzzy. In normal shooting you target a unit, not a single model in the unit (unless possibly focus firing). So you put 5 wounds on the unit, then you allocate using the normal rule (closest to furthest).

It's the same for blast. It talks about hits, not about who gets wounded. Pg 33 "Any unsaved wounds are then allocated on the unit for a normal shooting attack" (closest to furthest)

What I believe you are saying may be RAI, but I cant' find RAW to pan that out.

I can understand that, as I've yet to read anything specific, but as I said. The TEMPLATE speaks for itself, otherwise it wouldn't exist. You place a physical template over the target... That's the entire point of having said template in your hand when you do it.

"Wounds inflicted by Ternplate weapons are allocated following the normal rules." P.52

Allocate as normal, so closest models in the unit die instead of the ones under the template. (Usually the closest and the first model touched by the template will be one in the same).

Regular blast weapons are treated as a regular shooting attack. The models under the template tell you how many are hit, and then casualties are removed from the front.

Barrage blast templates goes on to specify that wounds are assigned closest to the hole of the template, so those come specifically from under the marker.

Wounds caused by template weapons follow the normal rules for casualty removal, they do not necessarily kill the models under the template (unless those models also happen to be the closest models to the firing unit).

This also means you're allowed to 'cover' a tasty clumped group of enemy models that happen to be out of line of sight from the firing unit (as long as they can see other models in the firing unit) and get a whole bunch of hits on the unit even though those wounds cannot actually be allocated to those models that are completely out of line of sight.

First, folks need to remember to distinguish between blast and large blast markers, and "templates", which by default in GW games refer to the teardrop-shaped thing flamers use.

Second, as above, wounds are allocated as normal. You do not automatically take them on the models under the blast marker or template. That was how it worked back in 3rd ed, and they got rid of it, because it allowed particular models to get sniped out too easily and reliably.

Brother Axel wrote:I can understand that, as I've yet to read anything specific, but as I said. The TEMPLATE speaks for itself, otherwise it wouldn't exist. You place a physical template over the target... That's the entire point of having said template in your hand when you do it.

That's a pretty bold statement considering that it hasn't worked that way in quite some time.

"A unit takes a hit for each model that is fully, or even partially, underneath the template" p6
Note that the unit takes hits - not the models. So the hits are allocated as normal (same as in the previous edition).

"Wounds inflicted by template weapons are allocated following the normal rules" p52
Extra clarification on that.

All shooting, including Templates and Blast, always allocate wounds to the closest model. The sole and explicit exception to this rule is indirect fire, which allocates wounds to the model closest to the center of the template. Easy!