Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Are there any viable ways of running them? Considering you only rarely saw them in 5th

They work ok as bodyguards to a primaris psyker. They can recieve a charge quite well now, as their guns put down a lot of shots. I have used them as mobile cover too.

Sweet, allies here they come


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also what squad sizes would you reccommend?

I'm not sure how effective they will be compared to a lot of stuff. Their high toughness can help to keep them out of trouble but terminators are probably a safer bet for the points.

As for size, at least five or six are probably needed to be viable. Below that they will just die.

I need a lot more games to figure out how to use them in 6th. I am liking how some of our east useful units (rough riders, ratlings, storm troopers, hellhound variants) seem to have been shaken up and are worth trying out. The amount of "useless" units seems to have fallen, which is nice.

Ratlings still suck, don't bother.

FifteenHours wrote:Ratlings still suck, don't bother.

It will probably take a while for me to get round to them. I'm currently thinking of filling my elites with Marbo and 2x 5 man stormtrooper squads. The plan would be to land them near enemy characters and pick them out as the closest target. If they try to hide in the middle of units, pelt them with barrage fire from manticores/basilisks/griffons/mortars (need to test what combo of support to use).

I discovered that ogryns can be an ok counter unit to scarabs. T5 really hurts them, and entropic strike isn't great against 5+ saves. The force stave on a primaris killed of so many of them with instant death. Not really an awesome use but something that can be useful.

I do think that ogryns need an IC to lead them though, their LD is a bit low otherwise.

I think Ogryns got a lot better. The LOS! save they provide to independent characters is hugely beneficial to both the characters and the Ogryns themselves. The characters get to bounce their hits off onto T5 bodies, and the Ogryns get a good leadership to better benefit from their Stubborn. The Bone'ead also is pretty good at accepting challenges that aren't beneficial to your IC. I think either the Primaris or a Lord Commissar complements the squad pretty well.

It's not all roses, though. My standard tactic used to be running them up to a good position in a Chimera, then disembarking and assaulting when advantageous. That's not an option anymore, as they can't assault at all the turn they disembark, and they don't get an extra 2" of disembark. So there's more of a reason to just leave a transport at home. I do think, however, that you can move 6", spin the Chimera 180, disembark 6", and run. This gives you a first turn move of about 15" or so (plus the width of the base). That's probably enough to get you where you need to go.

With the chimera I'm assuming its a 5man squad yeah?

Formerly I ran a 5 man squad plus Lord Commissar in a Chimera. I found that strong enough to take on most of the stuff I wanted to send them against. There's a spot for another IC in there, if you fancied a Priest just for the Eviscerator (his re-rolls don't work on Ogryn, sadly), and just have him peel off to carve up a vehicle.

Ratlings still suck, don't bother.

If you have Creed and kell, using bring it down or fire on my target with them, they are a nasty 100 point unit. Monstrous Creatures drop like flies

As for Ogryns...my last 5th ed game I used them against space wolves and they got destroyed by a squad of grey hunters, so I was planning on not using them for a long time but I like the idea of having a psyker with them...

Can the primaris take divination powers?

Volkov wrote:Can the primaris take divination powers?

Alas, no. If he could then I would take him every game. You could take an allied BA, DA or SW to get divination.

Alas, no. If he could then I would take him every game. You could take an allied BA, DA or SW to get divination.

I glanced at the divination primaris power prescience, and thought that would be amazing for Ogryns. GW tries so hard to keep them mediocre...

Volkov wrote:

Alas, no. If he could then I would take him every game. You could take an allied BA, DA or SW to get divination.

I glanced at the divination primaris power prescience, and thought that would be amazing for Ogryns. GW tries so hard to keep them mediocre...

Forewarning would be my favourite. Ogryns with decent saves? Awesome.

I'm sort of annoyed that GK are not battle brothers for IG, I was wanting to use an inquisitor. Then again, GK can't be BB with anyone, so it isn't so bad. Guess I'll just get a few sisters at some point instead.

Another neat thing about Ogryn as bodyguards, is that if the IC is your warlord, it makes it very tough to get the points for killing the warlord.

Same problems as before. Still very expensive to both buy and run, but they do hit very hard in the right list.

Stormrider wrote:Same problems as before. Still very expensive to both buy and run, but they do hit very hard in the right list.

In addition to all the problems they had before, they now have to compete directly with allied TH/SS terminators at the same cost (not accounting for HQ/Troops, obviously). Their guns are actually fairly sold, but they get precious few opportunities to use them and S5 isn't exactly something the Guard usually lack.

They are/were good at locking stuff down that's mediocre in melee - they just severely lack the killing power that 40p/model should buy. They really needed the option for a Power Weapon of some kind.

KestrelM1 wrote:

Stormrider wrote:Same problems as before. Still very expensive to both buy and run, but they do hit very hard in the right list.

In addition to all the problems they had before, they now have to compete directly with allied TH/SS terminators at the same cost (not accounting for HQ/Troops, obviously).

They are/were good at locking stuff down that's mediocre in melee - they just severely lack the killing power that 40p/model should buy.

This is unfortunately true. They benefit from the fact that smaller melee units that don't rely on individual characters to provide offense are a lot better in this edition, but that just makes them the best out of a bunch of bad choices.

This is not true. 4 S6 attacks on the charge does not lack killing power. It is solid killing power for 40 points a model, thta is compounded by excellent durability for 40 points a model. They also have a gun, that with the new random assault rules gives them a ton of flexibility in close range encounters that don't result in base-to-base contact with the enemy.

thinking of running a lc- maybe a min squad of them will help keep her alive and add a little punch to the 50man blob she is wrapped around

The LC doesn't really need protection from the Ogryn if you've got it with a 50 man blob. The 2+ LOS! save should be fine to keep the LC safe, and you'll have plenty of warm bodies to keep it up. I could see a trio of Ogryn bodyguards if you were using an LC to hold a gunline in place, and/or to help heavy weapons squads receive orders. It has a small footprint, and provides a pretty nice counterpunch to the remnants of any close-combat squads that get through.

Thinking about the Primaris Psyker again, I think Biomancy has a great potential as a power. Iron Arm and Warp Speed both are nice for making the Psyker better in combat. Enfeeble makes a lot of really good CC units fold pretty hard to Ogryn (anything w/ S4/T4 will be wounding on 6's and be insta-killed by charging Ogryn). Endurance is just dirty awesome, giving both a FNP save and getting wounds back from your multi-wound models. Life Leach and Haemorrhage are not too great, and Smite is only okay, but you'll probably get at least one of the good ones.

The more I think about it, though, the better the original Primaris Psyker powers look. In this world of glancing light armor to death and Precise Attacks from characters, Lighting Arc is looking better and better. Nightshroud also works pretty well, as Ogryn are already hard to kill. The chance of losing a whole unit's shooting might be enough to make the enemy turn their guns elsewhere, or at least get the unit a bit of respite if the leadership test is failed.

I thought ogryn were kind of fun in 5th, and I think they got better in this one:

Ogryn, surprisingly, got better with this rules edition, and may have moved from extremely optional to slightly mandatory for foot guard players. Cover saves for regular infantry squads just got a lot worse for a lot of reasons, and the primary one is that, in order to have cover, there needs to be stuff literally in front of them. Enter giant brutes. In close combat, they went out with the anti-assault tide (especially since furious charge no longer equalizes their initiative, but leaves them slow), but they also came in with the pro-shooting tide. When you get close, those ripper guns get to shoot three times, and when they get charged, they get to shoot three more times! If the random charge fails, then they get to shoot the ripper guns even more! Ogryn can now put out an eye-watering number of S5 attacks (don't forget that the bone 'eads gets precise shot), and are still just as thuggishly meaty in close combat, which is especially important in a world where you want to keep your infantry squads away from assault as much as possible.

It's hard to say if they're going to need a lord commissar quite as much as they used to. With guard armies in general being more static (and officers being more mobile), chasing them with a flag doesn't seem quite as bad anymore, while the lord commissar is going to be much harder to keep alive than he once was. Given that they're better in shooting now, rather than racing into close combat, and are more of a defensive weapon, you don't have to try so hard to keep them in the fight. If they're not mandatory anymore, this makes ogryn a lot more affordable. 250 points for 6 of them is much easier to shoehorn into a list than 350 with the required lord commissar.

Ogryns were by far better in 5th. The re ruling of furious charge hurts them. When furious charge was +1Initiative and +1Stregnth, it helped being able to swing at the same time as most armies (SM). Now, at only I3 on the charge, they will get beat up pretty well before they have a chance to swing.

They are initiative 2. +1 initiative never helped them that much.

It did vs a power blob or ork boyz


(note- the above is sarcasm, pointing out the few things that it really helped them against, not saying that it really gave them oomph)

Ailaros has this i believe. I mean, the guy right after him say they were better in 5th thinks they are I3 base. With the powerblob out as a melee tarpit, the old fashion wall of wounds. Might be fun to pop a divination allied pskyer in for the buffs+ATSKNF. ATSKNF ogryns...

Yarrick is a good choice to lead them now that fearless doesn't suck

Ailaros wrote:I thought ogryn were kind of fun in 5th, and I think they got better in this one:

That's a very good write-up you linked there, thanks! I did miss the rule about barrage minimum range, glad I can did my Basilsk out again.
The only problem I noticed was in the section about sponson weapons. Plasma Cannons, being blasts, can't snap fire sadly (unless I'm missing something).

If you want to attach a character to them (I think Ailaros' banner solution is probably the most efficient) I think an allied Biomancy Librarian is probably your best bet, with some luck he can put some pretty serious buffs on the Ogryns and at worst he can put out some AP2 psychic firepower.