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As I'm sure that anyone who has looked at the 6th edition rulebook has realized, Flyers are good. Really good.

Here's a list I worked out during the last couple of days. Explanations on the list afterwards:

Orikan 165
Overlord, Warscythe 100 ---> in Command Barge, tesla cannon 80
(5) Crypteks, 5x Voltaic Staff 125

(5) Immortals, tesla 85 ---> in Night Scythe 100
(5) Immortals, tesla 85 ---> in Night Scythe 100
(5) Immortals, tesla 85 ---> in Night Scythe 100
(5) Immortals, tesla 85 ---> in Night Scythe 100
(5) Immortals, tesla 85 ---> in Night Scythe 100
(5) Immortals, tesla 85 ---> in Night Scythe 100

(5) Scarabs 75
(5) Scarabs 75

Annihilation Barge, tesla cannon 90
Annihilation Barge, tesla cannon 90
Annihilation Barge, tesla cannon 90

= 2000

Orikan and the Crypteks each join a Immortal squad, and go into reserves in their Night scythes.

So, lots of Flyers. The main power of Flyers is that only other Flyers can reliably kill them. Why can't foot troops kill them, you ask? One reason is only being able to Snap shot them (hit on 6+), and though it is a large factor of Flyers' power, its not actually the main reason, at least with this list. The reason is that Flyers will (almost always) be able to shoot you before you shoot them. Coming in from reserves at 36" speed if needed lets them reach ANYWHERE on the table, and, if you have enough firepower, cripple your opponent with that Alphastrike so that he won't be able to recover.

Consider this. On turn 2, you use Orikan's ability to reroll reserves, giving you a 88% chance of bringing in each of your units. On average, that's 5,3333 Night Scythes coming in.

You fly forward 24", drop off your Immortals from inside (thus letting you reach anywhere on the board with them as well) and unleash a torrent of Tesla hell on your opponent.

On average, 5 Scythes and their contents will kill ~15,94 MEQ's. If your Annihilation Barges are able to fire as well (and they should be, unless they are dead which is unlikely after one turn) they'll add on another 6,11 dead MEQ's. That's 22,05 dead marines. In one turn. Without your opponent having *any* real way of stopping you from doing it.

Hiding in transports doesn't help, as Necrons have suddenly gone from being crap at killing tanks at range to being terrifyingly good at it, in fact IMO the best in the game. Thanks to glances taking off hull points, those Voltaic staffs will take off 2,222 hull points EACH, off of ANY vehicle. Yep, Land Raiders go straight back in their army transports. Your Tesla destructors take off 2,6666 each (against av11). Add in your Immortals' shooting, and your random Tesla cannons on your Barges, and you can expect to cause around ~30 hull points of damage to Rhinos/Razors on average. Excess hull point damage doesn't carry over if the vehicle is dead, of course, but its no exaggeration to say that you can easily kill 8 Rhino's, in a SINGLE turn. Chimeras are even easier, as its child's play to get side armour on them with your Scythes and disembarking dudes. Of course, its usually far better to destroy a transport and shoot the contents to death if they are more threatening than other targets, but you get the picture.

The simple fact is, practically no army can take the staggering Alphastrike this army puts out and recover from it. No marine army can afford to lose 22 marines, or 8 transports and still be able to compete. Xenos armies (assuming 5+ cover saves for generosities sake) can't lose 44 models a turn and be able to fight back for more than a couple of turns.

Usually in objective games its a good idea to keep a single Immortal squad in their Scythe, and have that Scythe leave the table on t4, so on t5 it can come on and drop off your Immortals on any objective within 42" of your table edge. So yeah, any objective on the table

The Scarabs are there just as cheap fodder that will kill tanks easily or tarpit something if necessary. They can also be used as bubblewrap to shield your disembarked Immortals from CC armies. The Lord is just to unlock the Court, but he can also sweep attack flyers and beat up infantry squads if needed, and he brings another vehicle to the party.

The only armies I can think of which actually pose a threat to this is something like an IG list with 8-9 Vendettas and 8-9 Hydras (can't fit in 9 of both @ 2k), as Vendettas beat Scythes in the air thanks to Hydra support, squadron rules and jink (place one Vendetta in the squadron further forward than the rest, Jink with it when the squadron gets shot at and absorb hits for your buddies) but if your Scythes can bring down even 4-5 Vendettas before dying, your ground troops can finish them off pretty reliably, as TL lascannons aren't great at killing large amounts of Necron bodies (yay Rez protocols!). The interesting thing about Flyer vs Flyer battles is that you will usually want to come in second to get the Alphastrike, as your opponents Flyers will already be on the table. If you do have the misfortune to have to come in first, its not all bad, you can always just fly over to the Hydras and kill them instead

But yeah, this turned into a monster post, hope you guys have enjoyed reading it and got something interesting or thought-provoking out of it. As always all comments and thoughts are very welcome =)

As someone who has actually played a game of 6th with fliers i can tell you, you are going to find trying to maneuver that many zooming flyers very unwieldy.

Scythes can only zoom, which means they always have to move at least 18 in, and they can only turn 90 degrees before they move.

With 6 fliers, the rest of your units, all your opponents units, and terrain, you will find you will run out of room real quick.

In my game i only had 2 fliers and because of the mobility limitations on scythes they only got to shoot at something 2 out of the 6 turns we played because the either weren't facing the right directions since i coudn't turn them enough, or because they flew right past his units due to their minimum 18in mobility.

Play a game first before you tote this as the end be all of lists.

Yes, it is a broken list. One of the top 3 armies in the game, at the moment, IMO.
I called out this build back in June http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/449405.page

The only thing different is I would use Doom Scythes instead of the Annihilation Barges, but either one is broken.

I would only use this build in the most intense, competitive enviornments. It is way too strong, and unfair if you ask me.

Something I drew in Paint in about 3min, demonstrating an attack vector for Night scythes. Regular pitched deployment as an example.

Basically, bring half your Scythes from each flank, angling wherever your opponents dudes are (in the example, I used the left flank, but you can reach anywhere on the left side of the table). Disembark troops to shoot. Next turn, fly towards your opponent deployment zone at about a 45 degree angle (more or less, as necessary) and shoot stuff in the middle/opposite side of the table, then in your opponent's shooting phase jink when shot at. Next turn off the table, next turn back on, rinse and repeat.

So, for a Scythe that came on on t2 :

t2. Come in from corner and drop off troops, angle towards targets.
t3. Fly into middle, target stuff in the middle or opposite side where you came in. Jink when shot at.
t4. Off the table.
t5. Back on.

With 3 Scythes on each flank you can fly them in a V formation or all side by side, however you like. Their angles of fire should be able to cover pretty much most things you need them to. Zooming like this will give you at least 3 turns of shooting in a 5 turn game, possibly more depending on enemy movement, but very unlikely to be less.

Again i can understand how on paper a but load of fliers can sound like a good idea, but i believe once you play a game you see its not.

You strategy you laid out in paint could work, but again its not taking into account the fact that there are a bunch of other units (yours and your opponents) on the board as well as terrain. You will get your turn 2 beta strike but as for your turn 3 fly into the middle it will depend on unit and terrain placement. In the game i played i wasn't able to do this as the middle was filled with units and terrain so i had change my direction which led to me not shooting at anything.

While you can fly over anything you cant end you movement on other units or certain terrain such as buildings.

Once you actually play a game and see how the fliers actually perform as to on paper, i think you will see your list change to include less fliers.

With a vast majority of your army in reserves I would take and hide those scarabs the absolute best you can. Out of LOS and in good cover. The right army can shoot down the barges and destroy the scarabs, then you lose before flyers come in. Flyers are cool and all, but over use of reserves isnt good.

Also, you're not counting for other fliers, especially if your opponent has the same idea you do.

Shamanlord1961 wrote:With a vast majority of your army in reserves I would take and hide those scarabs the absolute best you can. Out of LOS and in good cover. The right army can shoot down the barges and destroy the scarabs, then you lose before flyers come in. Flyers are cool and all, but over use of reserves isnt good.

True, the Annihilation Barges, CCB+Lord and Scarabs are vulnerable before the Flyers come in, but the Barges are still fairly resilient at range with av13 and a 5+ from Jink, plus with a 50% chance of Night fight occurring in all the rulebook missions you can improve that to a 3+, which is nice. If it looks like my opponent actually has enough shooting to kill everything I have on the board in a single shooting phase (or two, if I'm going second) then I'll just deploy the Lord alone behind some LOSblocking terrain to prevent a wipeout.


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McNinja wrote:Also, you're not counting for other fliers, especially if your opponent has the same idea you do.

The only other army with Flyers that actually threatens this list is IG with mass Vendettas (and possibly Orks, with their Fighta Aces), and the IG matchup shouldn't be a clear cut loss, just a more difficult game. And of course a mirror game against another Cron list running 6 Scythes, but that's just really up to whoever goes second (so whoever gets to shoot the other guys Flyers with his Flyers first).

I would encourage you not to play this list. It's abusive, and will make for an unfair game for your opponent.

My general rule of thumb is no more than 3 flyers at 2,000 points or below. Trust me, it will make for a much more exciting game
on each side.

I would just like to point out that I had this idea way back in december:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/416870.page

The list there is not what I settled on exactly, it was much more focused on 5 man warrior squads in nightscythes (edit: I was planning on building this when the models were released, and have not done so yet)

But never the less the scythe spam has been a powerful concept in the Necron dex since it came out with 6th only making it even more crazy.

It does suffer from a potential to lose outright if your opponent can wipe what you start with on the field before your flyers arrive, but as has been pointed out there are ways of mitigating this possibility.

Scythespam will be strong, possibly being THE list to beat, with IG Flyer spam being a contender.

Darklight wrote:I would encourage you not to play this list. It's abusive, and will make for an unfair game for your opponent.

My general rule of thumb is no more than 3 flyers at 2,000 points or below. Trust me, it will make for a much more exciting game
on each side.

I play pretty much every game against like minded people, as in WAAC douchebags who don't mind bringing the most powerful army available to give them the best chance of winning For example, out of the 4 guys on our team, all of us played MSU mech Grey Knights during 5th ed for at least some time, 2 of us playing it exclusively at tournaments.

But yeah, if I'm just playing a random pick up game at the FLGS I wouldn't bring this I'd probably take my Daemons out, as they're crap enough that no one could accuse me of being a WAAC douche

I do like that you try to hide the fact that you're a "WAAC douche" (your words, not mine) by more or less admitting it.

But do we need another one of those guys? Whether or not I would enjoy playing against a list like this isn't really relevant, but I can tell you that BUILDING (like, assembling and painting) a list like this would be torturous.

It's uninspired, boring, and a dark harbinger of doom on the state of the game mere days after the new ruleset has been released.

But hey man, it's your 700 bucks. Do whatever you want.

All I can really say is pray you get turn 1. If not, at 2000 points, it is not that difficult to bring down 4 Vehicles, 10 Scarabs and an Overlord and you don't want to be tabled in 2 turns.

RxGhost wrote:I do like that you try to hide the fact that you're a "WAAC douche" (your words, not mine) by more or less admitting it.

But do we need another one of those guys? Whether or not I would enjoy playing against a list like this isn't really relevant, but I can tell you that BUILDING (like, assembling and painting) a list like this would be torturous.

It's uninspired, boring, and a dark harbinger of doom on the state of the game mere days after the new ruleset has been released.

But hey man, it's your 700 bucks. Do whatever you want.

Well, it depends on how you would define WAAC douche, but I readily admit that, yes, I do enjoy playing with the most competitive lists I can build, that give me the best chance of winning. Among the group of guys I play with we all pretty much share the same mentality, so its all good. I wouldn't take this list to random games at the FLGS to club baby seals with, but I sure as hell will be taking it to every tournament, at least until someone thinks of a counter, then I'll tweak it to take that into account.

Actually, I've already got all the infantry needed for this list from my 5th ed Scarabswarm list, just gotta buy the Scythes and Barges, which comes out to around 270 euros, which is ~335$, not too bad.


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Unholy_Martyr wrote:All I can really say is pray you get turn 1. If not, at 2000 points, it is not that difficult to bring down 4 Vehicles, 10 Scarabs and an Overlord and you don't want to be tabled in 2 turns.

Turn one is nice, yeah. Though with all rulebook missions having a 50% chance of Nightfight and the Barges still being fairly resilient at range w/ av13 and a Jink 5+ (4+ if needed), I should hopefully be able to survive the first 1-2 shooting phases before my flyers come in. Another option I was thinking of was to drop 2 Scarabs and pick up a single Tomb blade with a Shadowloom for 30pts, to hide behind LOSblocking terrain and deny Wipeout

Jabbdo wrote:As I'm sure that anyone who has looked at the 6th edition rulebook has realized, Flyers are good. Really good.

I find it mildly amusing that you have to go on a rant in this thread about something that's been discussed over and over at the tactics forum for weeks now, but I won't hold it against you. It just feels you're preaching to yourself.

Your list is far from optimised and I've found that to be the case with each spam list you've done through the years here at Dakka. You have a hint at what might be good but then you go the wrong way about it. Your IG lists were bad, your BA/SW Razorspam was bad, your GK lists were bad and now your Necron list is bad. They're not bad in a most strict sense because most stuff we encounter at tournaments is absolutely terrible bad, but the way you go on about your lists seems that you think you've figured out some secret formula for success when in fact it's anything but.

Orikan and the Crypteks each join a Immortal squad, and go into reserves in their Night scythes.

Do Orikan's re-rolls to reserves work when you're in reserve? I really can't see how it would. It's Orikan's once per game ability and if he's not on the table he's not in play.

Your list is full of mysterious stuff. Considering I've already ordered a dozen Scythe kits from the Maelstrom and the painting has started I'm unsure if I want to give you a lot of help here since you're from around here. You got a 2000 point list with no double FOC in use despite it being helpful, you're not using fortifications despite being helpful, you're using Immortals despite them being really overpriced as Night Scythe squads in comparison to plain Warriors, and on top of it all you're using a CCB and ABarges and Scarabs for crying out loud in a list that relies on decimating your opponent on turn 2 and would like to limit its own casualties on turn one. I'm trying to think what the logic behind this army is but there simply isn't any. You're preparing for a tournament that doesn't allow double FOC, doesn't allow fortifications, and clearly uses composition scoring since you've decided to take a lot of pointless stuff in an otherwise good army to make it more friendly. Which tournament is this may I ask?

Why can't foot troops kill them, you ask?

I doubt anyone is really asking any of this stuff.

The simple fact is, practically no army can take the staggering Alphastrike this army puts out and recover from it.

Except your list only does about half the alpha strike it could potentially do.

As always all comments and thoughts are very welcome =)

I was counting on it

As for the people who are calling him a WAAC player, I really don't know what to say. 40K 6th edition is an edition of flyers and the Necrons can get most of them. It is what it is. Everyone keeps talking about funky ally combos, double FOCs, fortification abuse, the rulebook missions being horribly imbalanced etc, and you decided that a guy who wants to give his Immortal squads dedicated transports is a bad person and a WAAC player? You really need to grow a thicker skin or just jump on the Necron bandwagon yourself. They'll dominate every tournament with no skill required untill new anti-flyer armies are introduced or tournament organisers simply grow tired of Necrons winning everything and use composition rules to restrict them.

Here's a counter to the list (though not a win button by any means but a problem for you to deal with, I run a similar Necron list with 6 flyers though I have half Doomscythes, half Nightscythes and only 4 Voltaic staffteks) is Eldar.

They can put a whole load of S6 shots in the air to deal with your flyers and if you are dropping your troops on the turn you arrive for alpha strike they can be relatively easy killed the foloowing turn (though granted in my army I have half the troops). The units in the Eldar that will cause you problems are the Fortuned Archon with Shadowfield at the front of a unit that can just soak up massed fire (the rest of the squad having either a 4+ or 3+ re-rollable save too). With a 45 degree arc it's not as easy to target who you want in a unit with the flyers as you'd expect. Wraithwall will also cause you significant problems as you've very little that can harm it with yor alphastrike and then they'll wade into your infantry and kill them as you flyers fly off and are unable to support the following turn. Also 1 flyer will die on the turn it arrives against every Eldar army as they'll all be taking a tank hunter exarch manning a quadgun. Also if they castle up and move together it can be really hard to get your flyers to fire for more than 2 turns in a row (you might of guessed I have a fairly regular Eldar opponent whos pretty good).

Against a Tank army your opponent is wasting his time even getting his models out of the case as you'll kill all his tanks in 1 maybe 2 turns in you're unlucky. However against certain infantry heavy builds you'll have to think carefully.

But yeah it looks a really good army, plenty on the table to survive the first 2 turns (personally I'd consider even going 2nd particularly if your playing Hammer and Anvil deployment).

Also I'd like your reasons for going Tesla everywhere. I'd have thought you had enough with the Barges and Scythes. Why on the Immortals and Command Barge where Gauss looks the better option (more help against a wider variety of tanks, more wounds on Infantry when close up). I'd consider sqapping half of the Immortals out for gauss, they can drop nearer the enemy and rapid fire and the Tesla squads can drop behind as they don't care where they are as long as its within 24", fire guass first then then the longer range weapons as you kill everything near to you.

Also I'd like your reasons for going Tesla everywhere

It's among many of the mysteries in the army list.

Against a Tank army your opponent is wasting his time even getting his models out of the case

Everyone will be at a disadvantage, sure, but you're exaggerating. I'd say getting turn one is a disadvantage for the Necrons because a tank army opponent with let's say 18 AV12 chassis will reserve the maximum that he can, leaving only mass infantry on the table going to ground behind an Aegis Defence Line for 3+ and 2+ cover saves during night, meaning that it's really him that is getting an alpha strike of sorts on the flyers instead of the other way around. Additionally the Hydra squadrons and Vendettas would enter play so that they're making it impossible or very hard for the surviving Scythes to turn and face the new threat. It's not a counter by any means to the army, but you saying it's pointless to even play is ludicrous.

Everyone will be at a disadvantage, sure, but you're exaggerating. I'd say getting turn one is a disadvantage for the Necrons because a tank army opponent with let's say 18 AV12 chassis will reserve the maximum that he can, leaving only mass infantry on the table going to ground behind an Aegis Defence Line for 3+ and 2+ cover saves during night, meaning that it's really him that is getting an alpha strike of sorts on the flyers instead of the other way around. Additionally the Hydra squadrons and Vendettas would enter play so that they're making it impossible or very hard for the surviving Scythes to turn and face the new threat. It's not a counter by any means to the army, but you saying it's pointless to even play is ludicrous.

Fair enough it was an exaggerattion but against a Tank army he has far more tank killing ability than his opponent (unless also Necrons) could possibly conjure. And yes against another army that could deal with Flyers it is likely a case of whoever goes first is at a major disadvantage. I also wouldn't consider the army your described a Tank army as it appears it is a flyer (or at least an anti-flyer) army. Also such an army would really struggle against anything that wasn't flyer heavy (those Hydras hitting on 6s against non-flyers and the Vendettas not being the alrounder that the Nightscythe is).

Orikan's Lord of Time special rule: "This ability can be used once, at the start of one of your turns. For the remainder of that turn, all unsuccessful reserve rolls must be rerolled." No references to Orikan having to being on the table to use it, unlike for example Zandrekh handing out USR's, which clearly states he's gotta be on the battlefield. I'd say, unless its FAQ'd, that Orikan can use it off the board.

I'm using a single FOC to start out with as I've already got all the Immortals and don't particularly want to pick up 10 Scythes in one go, and because we prefer to play single FOC in out gaming group, as double FOC allows silly gak like this:

Orikan 165
Overlord 90
3x Voltaic staff Crypteks 75

(5) Warriors 65 ---> Scythe 100
(5) Warriors 65 ---> Scythe 100
(5) Warriors 65 ---> Scythe 100
(5) Warriors 65 ---> Scythe 100
(5) Warriors 65 ---> Scythe 100
(5) Warriors 65 ---> Scythe 100
(5) Warriors 65 ---> Scythe 100
(5) Warriors 65 ---> Scythe 100
(5) Warriors 65 ---> Scythe 100
(5) Warriors 65 ---> Scythe 100

(1) Tomb blade 20

= 2000

So I deploy a couple of Warrior squads, then Orikan, the Overlord and the Tomb blade behind LOSblocks to avoid a wipeout, then bring on 8-9 Scythes on t2. Yay, super fun!! Oh you brought a Land raider? Well shucks, 2 of my 25pt Staffteks will break it in a single turn.


Want to explain your reasoning behind Immortals being shittier than Warriors? IMO 20pts for a better save (relevant now, with cover getting worse and ap4 everywhere) and more importantly a FAR better gun is well worth it. Though I can see the merit in Warrior squads too, don't get me wrong, as they do save you 120pts in the troop department, I just think its more a matter of preference than an actual decrease in power if you take Immortals instead of Warriors.

Scarabs are cheap. I had 135pts left over. Eventually I'll probably swap them to a KFF Mek and 2x10Grots (gotta drop something to do it though) as it puts more scoring on the field and more stuff to prevent a t1 Wipeout.

I far prefer A Barges compared to Doom Scythes, simply due to the fact that Doom Scythes cost a gakload, and don't really bring anything to the list that it can't do already. Break vehicles? Yeah, I can do that. Kill infantry? Yeah, I can do that too. The only thing it would help with is other Flyers, which admittedly is nice, but not 175pts of nice, especially when you consider that ABarges are fairly potent AA in their own right, still dealing out 3,666 hits with their Tesla destructors even when firing at bs1.

CCB is another vehicle. If I want the court (and I do want the court) you gotta have an Overlord, and IMO a Bargelord if more effective here than any of the Special character Lords, and I'd rather pay 80pts and have him riding in a Barge than have his ass sitting uselessly in Reserve in a Scythe, and taking up another slot of Reserve space.

Out of interest, what sort of changes would you make, if you feel the list could be better?


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FlingitNow wrote:Also I'd like your reasons for going Tesla everywhere. I'd have thought you had enough with the Barges and Scythes. Why on the Immortals and Command Barge where Gauss looks the better option (more help against a wider variety of tanks, more wounds on Infantry when close up). I'd consider sqapping half of the Immortals out for gauss, they can drop nearer the enemy and rapid fire and the Tesla squads can drop behind as they don't care where they are as long as its within 24", fire guass first then then the longer range weapons as you kill everything near to you.

Against infantry Tesla is more effective at the 12-24" range. Gauss is better at less than 12", admittedly. But, after you've dropped your guys out, it can be hard to get them back into that 12" range after your Alphastrike, meaning your Infantry's power decreases significantly. Also, if your opponent leaves his army on his table edge, when you Scythes come on you'll have to move over 24" to get your Gauss in to 12" range, meaning you're firing snap shots. I'll have to proxy it a couple of games and see how it works out.

Jabbdo wrote:Orikan's Lord of Time special rule: "This ability can be used once, at the start of one of your turns. For the remainder of that turn, all unsuccessful reserve rolls must be rerolled." No references to Orikan having to being on the table to use it, unlike for example Zandrekh handing out USR's, which clearly states he's gotta be on the battlefield. I'd say, unless its FAQ'd, that Orikan can use it off the board.

That's something I would like you to take to YMDC because I'm also interested in how it turns out. I just can't see how in a permissive rule set you can use abilities from models that aren't in play. Are you saying you can also use it if Orikan is dead, because it makes no mention of Orikan having to be alive?

I'm using a single FOC to start out with as I've already got all the Immortals and don't particularly want to pick up 10 Scythes in one go, and because we prefer to play single FOC in out gaming group, as double FOC allows silly gak like this

There's nothing more silly in that new list than in the one you already posted. I think the first list is more silly since it's not sure what it wants to do. On one hand it's saying it's a flyer army, and on another it's taking stuff that have a real danger of getting murdered before they do anything. I like your new list a lot more, and if you want to make it 'more fun' drop some troops units and add some Doom Scythes for flavour. Having 2-3 will force your opponent to avoid clumped up deployments.

Want to explain your reasoning behind Immortals being shittier than Warriors? IMO 20pts for a better save (relevant now, with cover getting worse and ap4 everywhere) and more importantly a FAR better gun is well worth it. Though I can see the merit in Warrior squads too, don't get me wrong, as they do save you 120pts in the troop department, I just think its more a matter of preference than an actual decrease in power if you take Immortals instead of Warriors.

Immortals aren't terrible but they're simply not necessary in a list like this. When you do this right, everything that can hurt you is already dead on turn two and your armor saves don't matter. Additionally, whatever you deploy on the board on turn, Immortals or Warriors, it will be in cover and sometimes even going to ground so you have no danger of getting wiped out. You'll have cover saves that are already as good or better than the 3+ armour save.

Scarabs are cheap. I had 135pts left over. Eventually I'll probably swap them to a KFF Mek and 2x10Grots (gotta drop something to do it though) as it puts more scoring on the field and more stuff to prevent a t1 Wipeout.

Sure they're cheap and they're good too but they don't belong in your army unless you just want to be friendly. If your strategy is to disguise your army as a 'friendly Necron army' by taking some random units I can see your point for not wanting to be 'that guy' at every tournament but I just don't think you're kidding anyone regardless. By Christmas everyone everywhere will know how painful the Scythe lists of all variants are. The ones that take tons of Wraiths to go with the Scythes are painful too.

I far prefer A Barges compared to Doom Scythes, simply due to the fact that Doom Scythes cost a gakload, and don't really bring anything to the list that it can't do already. Break vehicles? Yeah, I can do that. Kill infantry? Yeah, I can do that too. The only thing it would help with is other Flyers, which admittedly is nice, but not 175pts of nice, especially when you consider that ABarges are fairly potent AA in their own right, still dealing out 3,666 hits with their Tesla destructors even when firing at bs1.

Annihilation Barges are fantastic but as you preached it yourself, flyers are really really good. It speaks volumes about how imbalanced flyers are that an incredibly points efficient vehicle like the Annihilation Barge isn't needed anymore. You're probably not gifting your opponent the game by taking them, but personally I'll stay far and away from them unless I'm going for something funny in a double FOC tournament like a TL TD spam of 6 Annihilation Barges and all the rest of the points in Warriors in Night Scythes.

Doom Scythes are flyers and they don't cost a prohibitive amount considering their destructive firepower. You had points left over and there's no excuse really for not taking some.

CCB is another vehicle. If I want the court (and I do want the court) you gotta have an Overlord, and IMO a Bargelord if more effective here than any of the Special character Lords, and I'd rather pay 80pts and have him riding in a Barge than have his ass sitting uselessly in Reserve in a Scythe, and taking up another slot of Reserve space.

I will experiment with some of the special characters but if I didn't and just took an Overlord I'd really not equip him on a barge at all. Just like the ABarge, the CCBarge has become redundant because of the flyers becoming too good. It doesn't really give you anything you can't already do, but for your enemy it gives a target that they can destroy and score points from.

Out of interest, what sort of changes would you make, if you feel the list could be better?

Necrons are the best army in the game, we've agreed on that, but remember that not only are they the top dog but they're also incredibly flexible. We don't need to make 'just one list' that has to adjust to every tournament for the next four years. When I make a list I look at the restrictions placed on me. Are fortifications allowed? Is double FOC allowed? Are special characters allowed? What are the missions like? What is the comp scoring or sportsmanship scoring etc like?

Generally speaking, without going into detail into what I will play at the tournaments later this year, because I have ordered models for about 12 different lists, I'd just tell you to drop all the 5th ed stuff and go full 6th ed. No holding back now.

I will say though that a double FOC IG army is the only opponent that needs to be taken seriously (in addition to other Necrons), and that this is a bad thing. It means that these lists are 'Daemons of Chaos' good and that it will result in a backlash from the community and future restrictions. The worst case scenario is that people have a ton of Scythes they can't ever use.

Fair enough, good points.

What part of Finland do you live in btw? Any chance we've met at a tournament at some point in the past?

Here's an army that will blow what you got there right out of the water. I just made this as a double foc+allies+forts list building excercise

I live in Helsinki but I've lived in England for quite a few years too. I'm not sure we've met, but you can PM me anytime and we can arrange a small Dakka meet at some upcoming tournament.

HQ
Company Command Squad, Autocannon, Astropath: 90p
Company Command Squad, Autocannon: 60p
Overlord, Gauntlet of Fire: 95p
Harbinger of the Storm: 25p
Harbinger of the Storm: 25p
TROOPS
Veteran Squad, Autocannon: 80p
Veteran Squad, Autocannon: 80p
Veteran Squad, Autocannon: 80p
Veteran Squad, Autocannon: 80p
5 Warriors, Night Scythe: 165p
5 Warriors, Night Scythe: 165p
FAST ATTACK
Vendetta: 130p
Vendetta: 130p
Vendetta: 130p
Vendetta: 130p
Vendetta: 130p
Vendetta: 130p
HEAVY SUPPORT
Doom Scythe: 175p
FORTIFICATION
Aegis Defence Line, Quad Gun: 100p

Total Points: 2000

Yeah, a Vendetta spam list w/ Crons as allies was one of the lists that we foresaw as a problem when talking about 6th during the last couple of days. Add on an Officer of the Fleet to feth up my Flyer reserves as well and it hurts a lot. Just gotta hope that that list doesn't become commonplace, thanks to how expensive it is to build and how annoying it is to transport 6 vendettas Night Scythes are nice in that they're not too expensive and easy to transport, as you can stack them up nicely like a pile of croissants

thanks to how expensive it is to build and how annoying it is to transport 6 vendettas

I think what is slowing (or stopping) some people from making such lists is that currently we still have no idea what the 'standard' tournament will look like. Points values and whether allies and fortifications and double focs etc are allowed is still largely unknown. It'll take a while.

If you do have the misfortune to have to come in first, its not all bad, you can always just fly over to the Hydras and kill them instead

I noticed this in your first post and just wanted to say that the Hydras (if someone had them) would also be in reserve with the Vendettas so you couldn't kill them. What you could do in such a scenario though is use your flat out move to fly off the table the same turn you entered. It'll become a weird game then though.

2 games against mech GK today, won 18-2 and 17-3, and I made a few mistakes during those matches, with some practice I wouldn't see getting at least 18-2 off of every match an improbability.

Tweaked the list a bit:

Overlord, Warscythe, Sempiternal Weave, MSS 130
(5) Crypteks, 5x Voltaic Staff 125

(5) Immortals, tesla 85 ---> in Night Scythe 100
(5) Immortals, tesla 85 ---> in Night Scythe 100
(5) Immortals, tesla 85 ---> in Night Scythe 100
(5) Immortals, tesla 85 ---> in Night Scythe 100
(5) Immortals, tesla 85 ---> in Night Scythe 100

Annihilation Barge, tesla cannon 90
Annihilation Barge, tesla cannon 90
Doom Scythe 175

Big Mek, KFF, Bosspole 90
(30) Shoota boyz 180
(20) Shoota boyz 120

Aegis defense line, Comm relay 70

= 2000

My gaming group finally relented and agreed that we could start using the Aegis line in our games (other fortifications and double FOC still banned) so I can drop Orikan's useless ass and get my reserve rolls for 90pts cheaper!

Swapped an ABarge for a Doom Scythe, to stop people from castling too heavily (or at least scare them a bit). I probably wouldn't swap the other 2 ABArges, they're still pretty awesome for their points,

Then, picked up 50 Shoota boyz, just for more boots on the ground, more scoring, and more midfield presence. Also, they're fairly points efficient at torrenting infantry, and can tarpit/tie up stuff if needed, thanks to the changes to fearless.

These lists are completely broken, lame, and some of the cheesiest builds I have ever seen in over 15 years of wargaming.

They are very powerful but they do have their faults. Just wondering - how does one go about constructing a comms relay? I don't think there is a picture of one in the rulebook..

Jabbdo wrote:Tweaked the list a bit:

Overlord, Warscythe, Sempiternal Weave, MSS 130
(5) Crypteks, 5x Voltaic Staff 125

(5) Immortals, tesla 85 ---> in Night Scythe 100
(5) Immortals, tesla 85 ---> in Night Scythe 100
(5) Immortals, tesla 85 ---> in Night Scythe 100
(5) Immortals, tesla 85 ---> in Night Scythe 100
(5) Immortals, tesla 85 ---> in Night Scythe 100

Annihilation Barge, tesla cannon 90
Annihilation Barge, tesla cannon 90
Doom Scythe 175

Big Mek, KFF, Bosspole 90
(30) Shoota boyz 180
(20) Shoota boyz 120

Aegis defense line, Comm relay 70

= 2000

My gaming group finally relented and agreed that we could start using the Aegis line in our games (other fortifications and double FOC still banned) so I can drop Orikan's useless ass and get my reserve rolls for 90pts cheaper!

Swapped an ABarge for a Doom Scythe, to stop people from castling too heavily (or at least scare them a bit). I probably wouldn't swap the other 2 ABArges, they're still pretty awesome for their points,

[size=18]Then, picked up 50 Shoota boyz, just for more boots on the ground, more scoring, and more midfield presence. Also, they're fairly points efficient at torrenting infantry, and can tarpit/tie up stuff if needed, thanks to the changes to fearless.[/size]

Your lists are alwais interesting Jabbdo. Alwais.

I was ready to reply asking you how would you counter an hordes army capable of saturate the area << from 18" to 24" of you table side >> leaving no room for your aicrafts (they of course will may enter in game moving more than 24", eventually even disembarking but in this case the Immorals could only snap fire if I remember well).

I was, in fact, ready to point out how your list was missing one or more solid midfield units, to keep a little field-control.

And then, voilà.

I do really like this last list including Orks. Surprisingly, for a fliers-spam army, you'll be more then often numerically sovereign.
The only problem, thinking seriously about it, would really the movement of the fliers. With a smart opponent saturating his side of the table and your Orks inevitably occupying the most of your I see really hard moments moving your croissants.

Alright, so we've got a 1750 tournament coming up, and I'll be bringing my Scythes:

Overlord, Warscythe, MSS, 2+ 130
(2) Stormteks 50
(5) Immortals, tesla 85 ---> Night Scythe 100
(5) Immortals, tesla 85 ---> Night Scythe 100
(5) Immortals, tesla 85 ---> Night Scythe 100
(5) Immortals, tesla 85 ---> Night Scythe 100
Annihilation Barge, tesla cannon 90
Annihilation Barge, tesla cannon 90
Doom Scythe 175

CCS, Astro 80
PCS 30
Infantry 50
Infantry 50
Vendetta 130
Medusa 135

= 1750

So, the IG are there mainly to bring cheap scoring, reserve roll bonuses, and to help out in difficult matches. The Vendetta will help against other Flyer armies, and the Medusa is nice against multiwound Deathstars. The single Doom scythe is there just to discourage castled up deployments, as no one wants the Death ray to hit 4 vehicles/a gakload of infantry at a time.

Thoughts and comments? Any changes you'd make? =)