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EDITED: I have edited the army list based on the suggestions below, instead of re-posting the list. Changes that I have made are in bold.

Here is a list I have been trying out. I have always loved the Black Templar but went down the Dark Angels path instead (and have been enjoying it). I have always wanted to start a BT army but i could never really justify getting another MEQ army when I already play one (sort of). So, now that there are allies, I thought I would add an allied force of Black Templar to accompany my Dark Angels and satisfy both my needs in one army. The fluff justification thus far is that the Dark Angels have "employed" (tricked) the Black Templar into joining them to destroy Chaos/foes of the Imperium. In actuality, the Dark Angels are using the Black Templars to help defeat the enemy with fewer losses to the Dark Angels as they hunt for the Fallen. Once the Fallen has been located, the DA will reassign the Black Templar, kick them out, tell them to leave, kill them etc. to make sure that the secret of the Fallen is safe.

Anywho, here is my lists for a DA/BT hyrbid army. It has been very successful thus far in my group of gamers. Keep in mind that my opponents are generally IG, SW, Sister of Battle, Chaos, and Blood Angels and we are NOT WAAC gamers. Of course, we compete and want to have fun games and win etc, but we try and use units that we like more than units that are "the best." Sometimes, though, the two are the same

DARK ANGELS (1,335 pts)

HQ

Belial - 130
- SS/TH OR Sword and SB

TROOPS

Deathwing Squad I - 295
1) Sgt w/ standard, chainfist, storm bolter
2) Cyclone Missile Launcher, storm bolter, power fist
3) Storm Bolter, Power fist, Apothecary
4) Storm Bolter, Power fist
5) Lighting Claws

Deathwing Squad II - 250
1) Sgt with Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
2) Thunder hammer & Storm Shield
3) Lightning Claws
4) Lighting Claws
5) Assault Cannon, chainfist

Deathwing Squad III - 240
1) Sgt with Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield
2) Storm Bolter, Power Fist, Cyclone Missile Launcher
3) Storm Bolter, Chainfist
4) Storm Bolter, Power Fist
5) Storm Bolter, Power Fist

FAST ATTACK

Ravenwing Squad - 420
6 bikes total
- Sgt w/ Power Sword and Melta Bombs
- Plasma Gun
- Plasma Gun
+
- Attack Bike
- Multi Melta
+
Land Speeder
- Assault cannon, Heavy Bolter (or Multi-Melta)


BLACK TEMPLAR (665 pts)

HQ

Master of Sanctity - 157
- Artificer Armor
- Crozius Arcanum, Rosarius, Crusader Seals
- Frag Grenades
- Power Fist
- Bolt Pistol

TROOPS:

Crusader Squad - 239
10 initiates
- Bolt Pistols and Chainswords (8)
- Frag Grenades (10)
- Melta Gun
- Power fist and Bolt Pistol

4 Neophytes
- Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons
- Frag grenades

HEAVY SUPPORT

Land Raider Crusader - 269
- Power of the Machine Spirit
- Extra Armor
- Searchlight
- Smoke Launchers

TOTAL: 2,000


I apologize for the "long-hand" list style, but it is to make everything clear for me, and my opponents, when I play and I usually print out the list to make sure nothing is forgotten etc.

I thought that the crusader squad would be a good addition to my army because my DW army is seriously lacking in bodies on the field, and the BT are a great ally to provide such a thing. Also, keeping everyone mounted up in vehicles will allow my army to move 12" per turn if I really need to and keep up with my teleporting DW troops and bikes.

The strategy behind the list is to use the Land Raider duo as a spearhead to take objectives or destroy enemy squads that are hurting my units. The Ravenwing zip around and pester the enemy with shooting, snipe off elites with the plasma guns, and drop in terminators near or on objectives with no scatter etc. My goal is to make sure that the BT and mounted DW squad can win a combat in under 2 player turns to keep them moving and hurting my opponent as much as possible. Also, the mounted terminators are a great counter-charge unit if the BT get bogged down or too long, and are good at soaking up damage, challenging, etc and then staying behind if/when the enemy runs and is chased down by the BT. With the chaplain in the list, even if the LRC is destroyed I can be moving forwards pretty reliably with my BT and dishing out a lot of pain when I charge. Also, my entire army is Fearless which makes staying in combat easy, and holding objectives even easier.

Any comments or thoughts etc? I would love for some BT players to give me advice as I have only ever played one game with BT prior to making this list.

-VardenV2

Right, you commented on my list so I'll help you out. You scratch my back, I scratch yours and all that, eh?

Normally I'd advise against taking big Crusader Squads; they're not very killy and all they really do is die very slowly due to numbers. In this list, however, I think that such a squad could work, since something that dies slowly is EXACTLY what you want. That said, I'd probably drop the Krak grenades on the Crusader Squad and use the points for two things:

1: Remove melta bombs from Chaplain, replace with Power Fist

2: Upgrade Power Axe to Power Fist.

A Power Fist allow you to do so much more damage than a Power Axe, the Power Fist on the Chaplain is more or less a way of letting the Crusader Squad deal some proper damage against heavily armoured enemies, while still working as a tarpit. If you run into anything that requires Krak grenades you'd probably be better off with the Power Fists anyway.

I like the list and would definitely consider it a fun list to play.

2 issues I see in it:

-You have very little anti-flyer guns, I would try to fit more cyclone launchers or typhoon land speeders in the list

-while the BT detachment fulfills its purpose, it doesn't take advantage of the vows which is one of the main interest of BT in the first place, you could take a recclusiarch instead of a MoS and shave off points to try and fit the Emperor's champion to use the vows

Otherwise, definitely a fun list, I'm a big fan of the DAs and BTs myself.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:Right, you commented on my list so I'll help you out. You scratch my back, I scratch yours and all that, eh?

Normally I'd advise against taking big Crusader Squads; they're not very killy and all they really do is die very slowly due to numbers. In this list, however, I think that such a squad could work, since something that dies slowly is EXACTLY what you want. That said, I'd probably drop the Krak grenades on the Crusader Squad and use the points for two things:

1: Remove melta bombs from Chaplain, replace with Power Fist

2: Upgrade Power Axe to Power Fist.

A Power Fist allow you to do so much more damage than a Power Axe, the Power Fist on the Chaplain is more or less a way of letting the Crusader Squad deal some proper damage against heavily armoured enemies, while still working as a tarpit. If you run into anything that requires Krak grenades you'd probably be better off with the Power Fists anyway.

I was considering using the power fist, but I thought that the melta/axe/crozius combo was more versatile. Any vehicle will be hit on rear armor (usually 10) and will be destroyed easily by str6 attacks from the chaplain and the krka grenades etc. The melta bomb is there to take out anything like a dreadnought that can munch through the unit. My reason for not taking the power fist was because of the melta in the squad and because of the already high number of power fists in the army. I was thinking of saving the points from the fists to take more upgrades, use a MoS instead of reclusiarch etc. Also, the chaplain would lose his bonus attack if I gave him a power fist, so for me, he is fien how he is. The "sgt" with a power fist I can understand, but again, the axe makes him str 5 and can hurt most vehicles on rear armor etc. The krak grenades, LR lascannons, MM bike/speeder, melta gun, and power fists/thunder hammers in the list are all viable means of destroying walkers etc. I will make a magnetized "sgt" and chaplain regardless most likely, and try out the pfists and see how they are. If I feel I need the extra oomph then they will stay. If not, the axe and crozius will stay etc. I mean for them to be a hard to stop unit that can set up strong counter charges from my DW troops.

Thank you for your suggestions, they will certainly be considered.

-VardenV2

Well, the bitz have arrived and the conclusion (thus far) for the BT parts of the list is pretty much the same as before, AKA 10 initiates with 4 neophytes in the LRC. The initiates have a melta or a little extra oomph and then the power axe/fist (magnetized) for the "sgt (technically not a sergeant for character purposes though).

I was thinking with dropping the frag and krak grenades to free up a few extra points for the power fists potentially but I have a question: As long as ONE member of the squad has frag grenades, the whole squad can charge at regular initiative right? If so, I'll just give it to my chaplain for 1 point and let the others benefit. As a backup I could give the neophytes the grenades too, even though they are bullet catchers, in case the chaplain is killed in a challenge etc. And I am also aware that the LRC has the frag launchers, but most likely the BT will not be getting back in it to charge again. They'll just run around like psychopaths and attack anything on an objective in the vicinity of their drop-off point.

Thoughts?

I have done some tweaking and am pleased to announce that all the suggestions have pretty much been incorporated! The list feels much stronger now, with just as much flexibility (although I will still magnetize the "sgt" in case I want to free up a few points for the DA side of things). The list is also now EXACTLY 2,000 points, so I feel like a genius, thanks to you all! Look for the original post to see the changes. I will bold the units with changes!

-VardenV2