Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Unfortunately i am aware that the optimal tourney lists seem a far cry away of the one i'm fielding at the moment: they seem to spam either bodies, heavy weapons or vehicles. Within the confines of the fluff though i've been trying to make an army that is pleasing to collect but still effective.

Crimson Fists are not the popular choice when it comes to deathstars but I would greatly appreciate any and all criticism of the following list:

++HQ

1 Chapter Master Pedro Kantor (HQ) @ 175 Pts

++ELITES

5 Terminator Assault Squad (Elites) @ 460 Pts
#Dedicated LR Crusader Transport (Assault);
Pintle Multi-Melta

9 Sternguard Veteran Squad (Elites) @ 300 Pts
Combi-Melta (x3);
Power Fist
1 Rhino

9 Sternguard Veteran Squad (Elites) @ 300 Pts
Combi-Melta (x3);
Power Fist
1 Rhino

++ TROOPS

5 Scout Squad (Troops) @ 75 Pts
Sniper Rifle (x5);

5 Scout Squad (Troops) @ 75 Pts
Sniper Rifle (x5);

++ HEAVY SUPPORT

1 Vindicator (Heavy Support) @ 115 Pts
Storm Bolter; Demolisher Cannon


Models in Army: 38


Total Army Cost: 1500

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Pedro going in LR with termies for the +1 attack buff, LR escorted with vindicator to provide distraction to deathstar.

-Scouts sit on home objective and make camp

-Sternguard advance to mid field to contest objectives and overpower infantry with special ammo. Rhinos provide obscuring cover/tankshock assault units.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My first thought with this list is that it is a bit AV light. LRC and vindicator will be good if they get in range, but might get minced before they arrive. Then again, the sternguard will be good enough once they get to the midfield to contest objectives, and the buffs to snipers should allow the scouts to look after themselves at the home objective.

The only part of the army which i would really like to keep are the sternguard squads and Pedro, as i've spent a while lovingly kitbashing them. All other criticism is much appreciated!

Thanks,

I think you would do better with a basic LR and an auto-las pred for your tanks. This would give you more long range antitank fire. With the changes to vehicle firing rules, the only reason to take a crusader (IMHO) is if you need the space for more troops.

I'm not sure how well you will deal with aircraft. It might be worth picking up an aegis line with a gun for your scouts to hide in on an objective. Or a stormtalon. The problem is where to find the points. You might want to consider dropping one of the sternguard squads to a 6 man and putting them in a razorback. Or drop the vindicator. A godhammer LR might be enough. If you are charging full speed ahead you are snap shooting the LCs anyway. The fact that everything is twin linked should help clean the skies.

Well full-speed plus machine spirit means that i could still fire the multimelta and everything else would be twinlinked (assault cannons are still good AV, just short range).

I've work on getting a predator in there somehow, might be good for long range, but are vindicators really that unpopular nowthesedays? Surely dropping big pie plates are going to be even more fun with the footslogging now going on?

Pie plates are good vs. infantry, but can't hit flyers at all. I think vindis got a nice boost in this edition, and are worth fielding; but I think a pred would be a better fit in your list.

I think the terminators are muddling your list. Too many points for one assault unit.

Sternguard do not need to go upfront. They can cheaply have heavy weapons and they are great anti-infantry. How about - 6 sternguard with 2 heavy plasma with a razorback with las/plas. I believe it will be cheaper than your 9 man unit and provide a great firebase. If you go with three of those you are going to have superior firepower.

Pedro 175
Stern 265
Stern 265
Stern 265
970

Say 2 las preds - 260

2 Sniper squads 150

1380

That leaves you with 120 points to play with - more firepower say 2 speeders or perhaps a librarian.

I went with heavy plasma but you could easily go with missile launchers. Perhaps make one 5-man sternguard with all combi-meltas to go with Pedro. Then perhaps give the sergent a power weapon or fist.

You are going to be primarily a firepower army with one counterattack unit. With your small number of bodies, I think you are going to be better keeping your opponent at arms length rather than an in-your-face style army.

The rationale behind the terminator was getting utility out of Pedro. Despite his great BS his stormbolter in my experience is pretty woeful and might tickle one or two enemies per round of shooting. The +1 attack seemed pretty great, and with a choice of vanguards, honour squad or termies - it seemed like assault terminators were the best to go. Perhaps i'll save them for a 2000 point list.

Is there a legitimate reason to give sternguard anything other than combiweapons, it was my understanding that you are paying a premium for their special ammo - which is essentially wasted if you give them a heavy weapon.

The 120 points spare at the end might be quite nice for a stormtalon as well seeing as they are the only reliable SM AA for the time being.

I understand the appeal of termies and they are good but 400+ points in one unit is a tad too much for 6 models in an army that only has 30+ models in it. Assuming you don't get nerfed by a lucky first turn kill, you will hit hard on turn 2 but then be ground down quickly.

Sternguard get a heavy discount on heavy weapons and their special bolter ammo gives them an effective ability to sit back.
Again preserving them.

Compare my option with yours, you have 18 sternguard with 6 combi-meltas plus of course the landraider crusader with the termies. So 1 multi-melta and 6 single shot meltas. My suggestion is 18 sternguard with 3 razorbacks... 6 heavy plasma plus 3 lascannons and 3 TL plasma. I am trading 1 CC unit for 6 firepower units (counting the razorbacks as separate) plus saving you a bunch of points to put elsewhere.
Enough to get you 2 predators with 4 las cannons and 2 autocannons plus 120 points.

Sternguard with HW give up mobility for cheap firepower. Compare 5 sternguard with 2 heavy plasma to 5 devastators with 2 heavy plasma.

I am not saying your list is for sh#t and that mine is superior.
I just think your model count is too low to specialize in getting up close with your opponent. I am offering a "keep your opponents at arms length" approach instead of an "in your face" style approach. Pedro's flag ability is great but use it as a counterattack rather than an aggressive attack. Aim for a devastating counterattack on turn 3 or 4 rather than an assault on turn2.

Hi,

First and foremost, camo cloaks on your scouts. They are not all that survivable at best, Camo Cloaks will help massively. This leads me on to my next point:
Take an Ageis Defence Line. Great for Anit-Air (Something you lack, which will cause you problems), and with Camo Cloaks, makes a nice litte camping spot for you.

Now, with the nerf to tanks, it is unlikely they will survive that long. Your transports, while they will do the job, it is very unpredictable as to how well they do the job in any given game. Maybe Drop Pods will be more benificial? You dont have to worry about getting wrecked driving up to the enemy, you can just drop in their face, delivering the sternguard, who excell at close range fire fights.

On the sternguard note, in squads of 10, i find it better to take 6 Combi-Meltas. If you jump out of a pod in the enemies face, you can combat sqaud, with 3 combi-meltas in each squad. 3 Combi-Meltas are more than enough to wreck a single tank. Hence, each squad of 10 coming down in a drop pod will take out 2 tanks each (...well, thats the plan).

Drop pods are good in 3/5/7/9s, in your case 3s. so remove the Terminators and LR, in favor for more Sternguard. 2 drop pods fall on turn 1, taking out a potential of 4 tanks (If you were against my army, that would be all of my tanks dead), and your third can drop on turn 2 / 3 on an objective.

Now, you need 4 additional units if you plan on dropping 3 units of sternguard and Kantor, due to the new rules. 2 of these additional units are your scouts. What would be helpful is cheap ranged fire support. A TFC springs to mind. If you are able to take one, bolster a ruin, and shove your other scout squad there, to benifit for the additional cover.

The vindicator has always been a fire magnet, taking 1 on its own with the nerf to tanks, is certain suicide.

@DAddict that does make a lot more sense, Pedro is a pretty poor out-and-out assault character so it felt wrong putting him in an assault force. If he hangs out with the sternguard at least he gets to fire his orbital.

@Zambro Drop-pods with combi-meltas does sound like a lot of fun. Being so reliant on a reserve rolls though as part of your strategy, would it not work out better to get a beacon at the aegis defence line?

Decisions decisions, whatever choice i make it seems like a large chunk of my next paycheque is earmarked for plastic soldiers.

No, the reserve rolls are not a problem.

Running 3 10man squads of sternguard in drop pods, gives you 3 pods. 2 automatically come down on turn 1, then the final one is reliant on reserve rolls. If it is at the start of the game, great! jump into the action, and if not, go to that far away objective / unit hiding behind a building.

Another option is to take a small honor guard unit with Pedro.

The AC2 is a lot more resilient with the nerfing of power weapons. The only thing that slaughters them is terminators as they have power weapons and or relic blades. It nerfs you on firepower but they are great for a counterattack unit and don't require a cadillac for them to get to the battle.

Honor Guard just cost over a billionty more points than they are worth. :(

I think 6th edition has made honor guard a lot more useful. With power weapons only having AP3. You get a unit with power weapons and AC2 with two base attacks. If you don't change everything with the specials, it can be quite cost effective.

I would not go overboard with them but a unit of 5 with pedro giving them all +1 attack, it might be an effective counterattack unit. I wouldn't pull them out every game but it would be a cheap option to switch between sternguard and them.