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Heyy guys, I'm thinking of running this list at my club on friday, what do you guys think?

1. Eldrad Ulthran - 210pts.

2. Dire Avenger Squad - 153pts.
w/ 8 members, Exarch; Power weapon & Shimmershield, Defend, Bladestorm.

• Wave Serpent - 125pts.
w/ Twin-linked Scatter lasers, Spirit stones.

3. Dire Avenger Squad - 153pts.
w/ 8 members, Exarch; Power weapon & Shimmershield, Defend, Bladestorm.

• Wave Serpent - 125pts.
w/ Twin-linked Scatter lasers, Spirit stones.

4. War Walker Squadron - 200pts.
w/ 3 War Walkers, 4x Scatter lasers, 2x Starcannons.

............................................................................................

5. Archon - 150pts.
w/ Huskblade, Combat drugs, Haywire grenades, Soul-trap, Shadow field.

6. Wych Squad - 148pts.
w/ 9 members, Hydra gauntlets, Haywire grenades, Hekatrix; Agoniser.

• Raider - 80pts.
w/ Nightshields, Enhanced aethersails, Shock prow.

7. Scourge Squad - 150pts.
w/ 2 Haywire blasters, Solarite; Power lance.

Total = 1494pts.

So Dakka, what do you think?

Iranna.

You'd rather have a haemy with the wyches. Cheaper and they start with FnP.

If you save 90 points by taking a haemy + liquifier instead, you'll have enough to add 3 wracks in a venom for 12 splinter cannon shots and another scoring unit.

I personally like the list as it is.

Surely a haemy would be nice for fnp, but the archon is so much more killy and in combination with fortune, his shadow field can absorb incredible amounts of damage

I would suggest to put Eldrad and the archon in the same squad so you can do the fortune trick more easily, but if you would want to go for the new psychic powers with Eldrad, I think no changes would have to be made^^

I think the list will perform quite well as Dark Eldar and Eldar seem to work great as a team

get rid those smelly eldar, nahh jokes, i like this list alot, i would never drop that archon, i use the same one as that in your list and he is always the daddy on the battle field.

One small problem the only way to get Fortune on the Archon is to put him with one of the Dire Avenger squads (or possibly Eldrad but that one is debatable).

Happyjew wrote:One small problem the only way to get Fortune on the Archon is to put him with one of the Dire Avenger squads (or possibly Eldrad but that one is debatable

True, but thats not really a problem imo, ad the archon is more of a tank anyway.

No Fortune on Shadowfield/DE.

Or at least I'm not willing to use an extremely sketchy 'rule' that will only be accepted by a marginal amount of players I know.

I'll be taking Eldrad with DE too, but he'll be loaded with 4 generic spells.

In regards to the list I think it needs more AT. One DL and some str 6 lasers will have a hard time against AV 12-14.

The Scourge squad is probably a bit too 'mixed', they should be avoiding assault if you have the haywires and they have the mobility to do it.

Maige wrote:No Fortune on Shadowfield/DE.

Or at least I'm not willing to use an extremely sketchy 'rule' that will only be accepted by a marginal amount of players I know.

I'll be taking Eldrad with DE too, but he'll be loaded with 4 generic spells.

In regards to the list I think it needs more AT. One DL and some str 6 lasers will have a hard time against AV 12-14.

The Scourge squad is probably a bit too 'mixed', they should be avoiding assault if you have the haywires and they have the mobility to do it.

I agree, and this is one of the problems with the Eldar book. It's too old to have good, affordable AV. If wraithguard were like 25 points instead of 35...

Maybe all the scatter lasers on war walkers can handle the AV 12 and lower, but then you're relying on maybe a single fire prism or a single heavy weapons squad for vindicators/land raiders/ghost arks (are av 13, right?)

Everything I'm writing right now starts with deldar, then eldar allies for war walkers and farseer.

As for the DE. I've never been a fan of the husk/trap combo since you need 5s to wound most things and if it is an IC he probably has a 4++ if not a 3++. The agoniser is cheaper and wounds more reliably. Personally I don't see the issue with fortune on a SF. The wyches are fine, but on the raider I woudn't take the prow or the aethersails. It isn't a bunch but skimping and saving can come up big. On the scourges go without the solarite. You really don't want these guys in CC. They have the same cost as an assault marine and worse stats overall (minus int).

Overall you seem to be lacking quite a bit of AT which is still going to be necessary as a few S 6 shots, a DL, and some haywires won't be able to deal with.

Maige wrote:No Fortune on Shadowfield/DE.

Or at least I'm not willing to use an extremely sketchy 'rule' that will only be accepted by a marginal amount of players I know.

I'll be taking Eldrad with DE too, but he'll be loaded with 4 generic spells.

In regards to the list I think it needs more AT. One DL and some str 6 lasers will have a hard time against AV 12-14.

The Scourge squad is probably a bit too 'mixed', they should be avoiding assault if you have the haywires and they have the mobility to do it.

The wych squad is probably the most useful unit in the list against tanks. Open-topped (read: assault) unit that attaches grenades 2/3rds of the time against a moving vehicle (thats 6 grenades) and only failing to do anything to it 1/6 (so that's 5 statistical hull points against any vehicle).

I would consider dropping the scourges and finding room for another wych squad. That might mean pulling points out of your Eldar or reducing upgrades on the archon. The hydra gauntlets might be an upgrade to toss as well.

I'd also probably drop nightshields at least off the raider. It's delivering your assault unit, the 6" won't matter soon enough.

Few comments:

Eldar really dont work as an assault/ close range army. With the new necrons and GK able to outshoot us at close range and outmelee us in assaults, its really not a good idea to go to them. DE work a bit better, but fall to rapid fire so fast that they need to be spammed on the field to perform well. Not sure how well this list will perform simply because the theme plays into other armies so much better than to eldar strengths.

DA are decent, but the dont do melee combat at all. Dont bother with defend or shimmershield. If they are assaulted, they will lose. Diresword is very nice for that rare chance it removes a character. However, 2x catapults is usually the way to go.
10 man squad, exarch, 2x catapults, and bladestorm is 154 points for 32 S4 shots at bs 4/5


Star cannons look nice for the AP2, but really arent worth it. You really shouldnt be shooting war walkers at 2+ saves anyways. Even against MEQ you have better weapons. Scatter walkers are for light vehicles/hordes or for backfield units in cover. Double the shots is just as good as AP2 when the target gets a 5+ cover save.

Wave serpents are way overcosted and really not worth it for dire avengers. Better to take a 2nd squad of dire avengers for the same price. 4 dire avenger squads are more survivable than 2 with transports and will put out more fire over the course of the game. Only take serpents for fire dragons.

War walkers are your friend. As many squads as possible. They are how we kill fliers, hordes, devi squads, transports, or just about anything. With eldrad throwing out guide, they are incredible. Even outflanking war walkers with cannons work well. They clear back squads, assault devistators or lootas and are generally unexpected for eldar(remember S4 glances on 6s and they are Str 5 2A to hit back).

Not really seeing the strength of adding DE here. A bit of AT, sure, but Warp Spiders do the same job now in 6th. S6 on AV10 means you need only 10 shots to destroy a vehicle. Overall, you seem to be spending too many points in DE for the benefit you gain.

Eldar powers only effect eldar squads, but DE ICs can be imbedded in eldar squads. Therefore, an archon can be in a squad and be fortuned for survivability.

zephoid:

Good post, I agree.

So what does eldar do for AV 13/14 ?

Bright lances are too expensive relative to dark lances.

My FLGS is doing an Iron Builder, and I've already purchased some eldar to compliment my deldar,

3 vypers w/2 shuriken cannons each, 3 walkers w/2 scatter lasers each provide exactly what the deldar are lacking, mass fire for AV 10-12

I wouldn't mind building an eldar army, the iron builder starts with 500 then 1000 points

I just don't know what I'd do with eldar at those point levels that wouldn't be immediately countered by a single vindicator / land raider
(granted, a land raider at 500 points is unlikely, but I think my concern is still valid at 1000 points, and the 500 points I'm considering for blood angels would include a vindy)

Vypers..... shudder... no. Vypers are about as useless as you can get a unit without calling it "chaos spawn" or "pyrovore".


I posted up a list if you look around the list forum with eldar+corsairs. Eldar bring the fire dragons, Corsair Prince brings a S9 AP2 large blast ordinance lance strike and allows the fire dragons to deepstrike. That deals with AV 13/14. IA 11makes eldar viable in tournies. Outside that... not really


If you really want a sock codex eldar list, something like this is what you go for.

Eldrad
Yriel

9 harlequins shadowseer 9 kisses fusion pistol
10 harlequins shadowseer 10 kisses fusion pistol

5 ranger pathfinders 110
5 ranger pathfinders 110
5 ranger pathfinders 110
3 guardian jetbikes

2 war walkers 2x cannon
2 war walkers 2x cannon
2 war walkers 2x cannon

It forces them to beat you on your own level. Harlequins now have 2d6 spotting distance AND stealth+shrouding for veil of tears. Get a 5+ cover save from terrain and your looking at 2+ rerollable cover saves. Eldrad and yriel hang out in the front of one unit and just throws all his saves to harlequins with the 2+ LO,S. no fleet on eldrad no longer hurts much since you no longer move at the speed of the slowest model but rather each the IC roll independently and progress that far. Therefore, eldrad may not make combat the first round, which isnt a bad thing.

War walkers outflank or scout and blow transports down Yriel kills land raiders like no one's buisness as he is still S9 vs vehicles. 2x fusion pistols helps in case though.

rangers are more there to pin anything they can than do damage. They also server to protect your rear. and hold objectives. If you needed you could swap 1 squad out for a warp spider squad.

zephoid wrote:Vypers..... shudder... no. Vypers are about as useless as you can get a unit without calling it "chaos spawn" or "pyrovore".

Why? For 180 points you have 3 AV 10 skimmers getting jink saves, and they're easier to get cover for than walkers when deploying (if you're going second).

Squadrons got buffed in 6e too.

For the same price, 3 walkers w 6 scatter lasers gives you 6 more str6 shots but are slower and much harder to get a cover save for. (the other thing is the range difference, but not as important when you can move 12" and fire both cannons, premeasuring the entire time)

I'm not saying vyper > walkers, but they don't take up a heavy slot, so as an allied contingent you can bring 3 walkers, 3 vypers, a farseer and some troop choice.

War walkers sit nicely at range and can hide behind your own units. The form a strong point of the eldar castle and are very easy to get in range of a farseer to guide them. Finally they can assault (trust me, war walker assaulting is actually a huge buff. Tied up Dante and Sang guard for 3 game turns in last ard boys and they managed to kill 1 war walker). AV10 is fun vs DE incubi too.

Vypers are open topped, closer to the enemy (melta guns are now +3 on table and 5 or 6 will kill a vehicle), cant assault , benefit less from squadron buff (since they must remain mobile) and are generally outclassed by outflanking war walkers with 2x cannons. 6th helped them so they may not be bottom of the barrel, but war walkers still outclass them.

zephoid wrote: 6th helped them so they may not be bottom of the barrel, but war walkers still outclass them.

I agree war walkers are better.

I'm just saying, they are useful. Maybe in 1850 of eldar i wouldn't take them, but in 1850 of dark eldar I'm thinking I will.

zephoid wrote:Vypers..... shudder... no. Vypers are about as useless as you can get a unit without calling it "chaos spawn" or "pyrovore".

As someone who's been playing Vypers against MEQ, Necrons, Orks, Tyranids, etc for a long time, I respectfully disagree. Yes, they are a bit overpriced and squishy. But tactical advantage Vypers can bring, especially if you have one or two jetbike squadrons is immense. With two or three other, more dangerous tanks and War Walkers on the table, I'd be grateful if my opponent shot the Vypers with 5+ cover save. But if they don't shoot them, then they get hit by 18 S6 shots each turn while Vypers are still on the table.

That said, my list is all shooting and revolves around harassing my enemy and dwindling them down piece by piece until they are no more of a threat and then move in for the finish. Warp Spiders, Rangers, Jetbikes and Vypers all help in that regard. So Vypers can and do work very well in certain lists and they are an important part of my strategy. Once you learn how to use them, when to move and when to shoot and how to flank your opponent you can do some pretty crazy stuff with them.

In regards to War Walkers vs Vypers, you should first take WW and then, if you really want more light vehicles, look at Vypers. With the new edition, you can sit behind your tanks to get cover saves and be in range of Guide/Fortune buffs. They put out a tremendous amount of shooting as opposed to Vypers. I'd easily take 6-9 War Walkers as my HS selections, then start filling out the rest.