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no, power axes swing at initiative 1.

scuddman wrote: Codex trumps rulebook, so banshee masks would have you strike at Initiative 10...but sad times when you charge into cover.

codex can trump rulebook all it wants. Banshees are I10.

They then use a weapon that only strikes at I1. Doesn't matter that they are I10, they hit at I1.

scuddman wrote:That makes no sense. The initiative 10 from the special rule from a codex would overwrite unwieldy. There is no stipulation in the rulebook that doesn't allow you to do that.

makes perfect sense. Instead of using the initiative of the model when using a power axe, you swing at initiative 1.

The initiative of the banshees could be 1000. Makes no difference. The axe swings at I1.

scuddman wrote:Where does it say that?

In the rulebook.

scuddman wrote:It says that a model attacking with this weapon does so at initiative 1, unless a monstrous creature or a walker. Why would it overwrite the banshee mask?

its NOT overwriting the banshee mask.

you need to understand this.

The initiative of the user DOESNT MATTER.

no matter what, you swing at initiative 1 with the axe, just as the rule says.

1) All the banshee mask does is raise the initiative of the banshee. Agree?

2) The power axe swings at initiative 1. Agree?

If it was as you say, then everyone would use their initiative with the axe, because at no point is there any rule that says you swing with the axe at higher than initiative 1.


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Testify wrote:
You roll off for it. They both set your initiative to different values, so you roll off for which one takes precedence.

The power axe isn't setting your initiative equal to anything.

It simply doesn't use your initiative at all.

Instead of swinging with the models initiative, you swing at I1.

Yea, I don't get why this is so confusing.

They have the exact same rule as power fists. You wouldn't contend that fists swing at I10 (if banshees could take them), would you?


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Testify wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:The banshee mask doesn't do what the OP contends it does. For example, it has nothing to do with when you swing a weapon:

"a model wearing a Banshee mask has Initiative 10 and negates any Initiative bonus conferred by cover cover and grenades."

If you're swinging a power fist, it doesn't care that you might usually be I4. If you're swinging a power axe, it doesn't care that you're usually I10. You still swing at I1.

If you're looking for a weapon upgrade, spears are probably about it.

No because the Banshees are usually initiative 5(I think, maybe 6). The Banshee mask sets it to 10, and the PF/PA sets it to 1. So roll off to see which takes precedence.

where the hell are you getting this roll off idea?

The PF/PA always swings at I1. PERIOD. END OF STORY. GOOD DAY SIR.

scuddman wrote:If that's so, then banshee masks don't actually do anything. The reason why power fists trump initiative modifiers are defined on p. 2. You apply set values last. The banshee mask applies a set value.

Banshee masks do plenty, as long as your not swinging a weapon that always goes at initiative 1.

Ok... if what you guys are saying is true, then power axes never swing at initiative 1. Because the models always have a higher initiative.

Think about it. All the mask does is make your initiative higher. So what? Your initiative does not matter. You swing at initiative 1 with a power axe.

chaos0xomega wrote:Im firmly in the initiative 1 camp. The mask and unwieldy might both be set values but they are not setting the value for the same thing as others have pointed out. Masks make banshees I10, unwieldy DOES NOT make banshees I1, it tells you instead rather explicitly that the weapon makes its attacks at initiative 1. In other words banshees can attack at I10 without the benefits of their weapon or at I1 with those benefits, its quite simple once you eliminate bias.... a,nd for the record i play eldar.

Man speaks the truth! preach!

scuddman wrote:I guess your best choice for a mech assault unit is to ally Dark Eldar, and put wyches/incubi/whatever in a raider or a venom.

THat being said...would people have a problem with banshees becoming count as incubi? Or Succubi? Or Wyches?

Generally, as long as a model has wargear its supposed to, and can't be confused with another similar model on the field, you can use counts - as for whatever you want.

So, just don't field 1 squad of banshees, then 1 squad of banshees as counts as incubi, and you should be OK.