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Okay, so I just played a game with a space wolf player who had a different take on Jotww than I've seen before, and I wanted to present this specific scenario to see what people think.

This player had a rune priest sitting behind a group of grey hunters, and beyond that were my poor, poor necrons. He used jotww, drew a line that passed through two of his own grey hunters, and then five necrons. He said that his own troops were skipped, and that the necrons were hit; the reason being that the first model touched by the power is considered the target, and he can't make a shooting attack against his own unit, therefore the first enemy model is the target, and the power has no effect along the line prior to that.

What's the skinny on this?

Thanks in advance.

Slap him for me, hes wrong. it doesn't skip your own units, he illegaly targeted his own GH first.

Everything under the line gets hit. The 1st unit hit is indeed considered the target and since it was his GH then he couldn't cast JotWW at all.

As has been said, the guy hosed you.

copper.talos wrote:Everything under the line gets hit. The 1st unit hit is indeed considered the target and since it was his GH then he couldn't cast JotWW at all.

This exactly.

Was his rune priest part of the grey hunters unit, if not then ya he was wrong.

fixxxer76 wrote:Was his rune priest part of the grey hunters unit, if not then ya he was wrong.

Are you saying that his interpretation was correct if the rune priest had joined those grey hunters?

Do other people agree/disagree?

Jotww is classed as an unusual template, you can't intentionally target your own troops with a template so either way he couldn't use it. blood lance is similar but specifically states it jumps your troops, maybe he was confusing the 2.

spongemonkee wrote:Jotww is classed as an unusual template, you can't intentionally target your own troops with a template so either way he couldn't use it. blood lance is similar but specifically states it jumps your troops, maybe he was confusing the 2.

Where was JotWW classed as a, "unusual template"? It isn't in the SW FAQ and JotWW has never been a template as much an many JotWW haters wished it would be.

Personally, I dunno about that "unusual template" thing, but it seems reasonable that if you can't target a blast marker such that it touches your own unit (whether that unit is in the same squad as the firer or not), you shouldn't be able to draw a jotww line such that it targets your own unit.

As a psychic shooting attack, Jaws of the World
Wolf requires line of sight. The Rune Priest must
have line of sight to the first model that the
power affects – in effect he is treated as the target
model; the power just happens to hit everybody
else on its way through!

which part of EVERYBODY ELSE is ambiguous? everybody is EVERYBODY, friend, neighbour, casual bystander EVERYBODY and since you cannot target friendly troops with a psychic SHOOTING ATTACK the line cannot touch friendly models, how is that different from a template?

Actually the line CAN touch friendly models. However the first model affected cannot be friendly.

Happyjew wrote:Actually the line CAN touch friendly models. However the first model affected cannot be friendly.

Right. Can touch friendlies, cannot target friendlies.

Happyjew wrote: However the first model affected cannot be friendly.

and the permissive rule book says this where exactly?

spongemonkee wrote:

Happyjew wrote: However the first model affected cannot be friendly.

and the permissive rule book says this where exactly?

Exactly what you quoted earlier.

As long as the first model the line touches is an eligible model per the general rules for shooting, the line hits EVERYBODY else on the way through. Everybody is inclusive of both enemy and friendly units because it is...well....everybody.

So in answer to the original question it cannot "skip" over friendly models, you target an enemy, if it touches a friendly model, same unit or not they are toast too, all agreed?

spongemonkee wrote:So in answer to the original question it cannot "skip" over friendly models, you target an enemy, if it touches a friendly model, same unit or not they are toast too, all agreed?

But it has to hit an enemy model before it hits your own as the first model touched is considered the "target" and you cannot target your own models with a PSA.

So if the line drawn hits a friendly model first then the attack is illegal and he just wasted that power for that particular turn.

A Town Called Malus wrote:

spongemonkee wrote:So in answer to the original question it cannot "skip" over friendly models, you target an enemy, if it touches a friendly model, same unit or not they are toast too, all agreed?

But it has to hit an enemy model before it hits your own as the first model touched is considered the "target" and you cannot target your own models with a PSA.

So if the line drawn hits a friendly model first then the attack is illegal and he just wasted that power for that particular turn.

Is this how it plays out? If he's drawing the line, isn't the power already in the process of being resolved? The wording is dissimilar to the Necron Death Ray which works more or less the same way. Is it because JotWW is errata'd to be a PSA?

Also, if it's a PSA/witchfire can I Deny the Witch?

Ostrakon wrote:

A Town Called Malus wrote:

spongemonkee wrote:So in answer to the original question it cannot "skip" over friendly models, you target an enemy, if it touches a friendly model, same unit or not they are toast too, all agreed?

But it has to hit an enemy model before it hits your own as the first model touched is considered the "target" and you cannot target your own models with a PSA.

So if the line drawn hits a friendly model first then the attack is illegal and he just wasted that power for that particular turn.

Is this how it plays out? If he's drawing the line, isn't the power already in the process of being resolved? The wording is dissimilar to the Necron Death Ray which works more or less the same way. Is it because JotWW is errata'd to be a PSA?

Also, if it's a PSA/witchfire can I Deny the Witch?

Well I'm not sure about the second part of my post (regarding the power being wasted) but as it is described as a PSA then I believe you should be able to Deny the Witch.

The question I'd have is whether all the units affected by it could try to Deny the Witch or just that first one to be hit.

for Deny the witch, I believe each unit gets to make that check. And the power only affects the units that failed the save.

Quinn wrote:for Deny the witch, I believe each unit gets to make that check. And the power only affects the units that failed the save.

To be more specific, deny the witch functions when an enemy unit is targeted. Although it can be argued that the first model being touched by the JotWW line is not the same thing as a 'unit', I think most people would allow it for the first model, but definitely any models after that first one would certainly not trigger any further deny the witch attempts even if they were in another unit (because they are not targeted at all).

Every unit hit may not be the declared first model target of JAWS, but anything under that line are certainly targeted and targets of JAWS by any definition of the word target.

I don't play space puppies but a friend does.

now reading the rule and FAQ

As a psychic shooting attack, Jaws of the World
Wolf requires line of sight. The Rune Priest must
have line of sight to the first model that the
power affects – in effect he is treated as the target
model; the power just happens to hit everybody
else on its way through!

I cant see anything to stop him drawing a line through his own unit my friend and my other friend (Nid player so he would love this to be true ) cant either can we have a pure and simple explanation of pages and rules to back up this view ?

We understand after the first target bit IE his own troops if they were say behind the target but not the own unit part ,also is there any reference to it being a template ,since a line as i understand has never been referred to as a template .

ngilstrap wrote:Every unit hit may not be the declared first model target of JAWS, but anything under that line are certainly targeted and targets of JAWS by any definition of the word target.

That's not correct.
Jaws only targets the first unit it hits - explicitly from the FAQ.

I'm just laughing because...How old is the Space Wolf codex?

Man we're still talking about Jaws. lol

Things to consider.

For shooting and friendly models look to page 8 of the BRB.

So far from what I have read, it looks like if another friendly units is between him and target unit, one has to be abel to draw los between the friendly models, but they do get a cover save (thought not sure about the beem style attacks and cover saves, didnt look that up).

Jaws states... "..may trace a straight line along the board,..ending 24" away. This line may pass through terrain....models that are touched by this line must take.."
There is nothing about friendly models and skipping his units.

Does he play Blood Angles too? He might be thinking of there lance ablity; that power does jump over friendly models.

Is it considered "pre-measuring" if you use a measure to work out the maximum damage Jaws will do, before moving your Rune Priest into position in the movement phase? Seems far too easy to abuse this power due to it's wording...

I suspect JoWW is a popular thing to discuss in part because it essentially ignores a large portion of the usual rules which apply to 40k combat and is as a result one of the most potent psychic abilities introduced that i am aware of thus far. I suspect many people tend to want to make 'very' sure that whomever is using it is getting it 'exactly' right because it's unusually hard to believe it actually got published as what the SW codex says it does.

As for wether or not you can skip friendlies with it like it? I'd say no for the following reasons:
1) it's FAQed to target the first model along the line it's aimed at, and you cannot target a PSA on your own units unless the power explicitly states so. (so i believe it could not have been used in the scenario you presented)
2) It does not explicitly state it doesn't effect friendly units, like with the Blood Angel's Blood Lance. (so it should hit everything in the line of effect, friendlies included)

The way it goes is first drop the line.
If the first model hit is a valid target you get to hit it and all models under the line.
Deny the witch may be done by the targeted model, ie the first one hit, from my reading.
After that any model under the line that can be effected by the power takes an initiative check. Things may die.
Terrain doesn't matter, line of sight is only an issue for the first model hit and that is all.

To the OP
Since jotww is a model targetting psa, my understanding is that you can never have the line over any models in the same squad as your rune priest. Though this is simple to take into account while moving the squad even if the priest is at the back of the unit.