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I've been thinking about uses for the Primaris, given the new Psyker and independent character options. I was re-reading the primary Telekinesis power, and I think it would be pretty nasty with a Primaris Psyker supporting a Shooty Blob. I think the Primaris can take the place of a Commissar in a Shooty Blob, saving some points. He gives better leadership, and then doesn't worry about a Commissar blowing his brains out. The primary Telekinesis power is an 18" line template that has S6 Strikedown. At first, I thought Strikedown only worked once it wounded someone, but reading the rule again shows that it works against any unit that gets wounded or makes a save against wounds caused by a power with Strikedown. So all you have to do is line up a few models and hope to get at least one 2+ (3+ in a few cases) against them. Deny the Witch also gets in the way. Anyway, you most likely cause Strikedown, and the unit now has its initiative halved and moves as if in difficult terrain. This makes it pretty for the enemy unit to now deal with the Guardsmen in close combat, both because it's harder to get to the Guardsmen, but also because most MEQs will be striking last, or at least simultaneously with the Guardsmen. Should the guardsmen lose, there's also a much greater chance that they get away from combat thanks to the lowered initiative. Is it as good as the Runepriest? No, sadly, but if you don't want to take allies, it's still a strong option.

What is normally required to charge a shooty blob:

Move over open terrain -> Charge over open or rough terrain (depending where the blob is) -> Get Overwatched ->Make swings (minus Overwatch losses) -> Survive remaining guardsmen swings -> Win Combat -> run down survivors

Compare this to:

Move over rough terrain -> Charge over rough terrain -> Get Overwatched -> Survive swings of full strength Guardsmen unit -> Make swings (minus losses from Overwatch and Close Combat) -> Possibly win combat, but face <50% proposition of running down any Guardsmen you beat in combat

Primaris can never take the commissars place in a blob. You need that stubborn or fearless, otherwise you are dead meat as soon as you are in CC...

Primaris does not have better LD. Primaris has LD 9, commissar has LD 9.

You are wasting 70 points IMO. The bonus is not worth it...and you are taking a HQ option. Another CCS would be better.

I agree with Lothar. By all means use a Primaris to supplement the commissar, but never to replace.

First off, sorry about the lack of clarity, I meant the Psyker was a leadership upgrade to the squad, not the Commissar

The idea is that you don't get in combat, at least not against stuff that's so weakened by shooting that you don't mind. It's a different way to play the blob, sure, as you don't have a reliable fallback, but I'm thinking it might be an alternative to give you some different options and uses out of the squad.

Also, Lothar, did you read my post about why you might not be dead meat in CC, or did you just read "no Commissar" and start typing? You don't really address my ideas, which might well be lousy, which is why I'm throwing them out here for discussion.

I think it's interesting, and overwatch occurs before you roll for charge range. Not that this has anthing to so with it. But the Strikedown power will require you to be in the front of the squad correct? To make sure you don't target your own unit. If that is the case, then that is an awful lot of points gone for something as silly as lowering initiative.

The big problem I see with it is that if you are using this power on something this specific, you aren't bringing another power that may be more beneficial to the army on a more general occurence. Say a Pyromancy or Biomancy attack. I prefer those two at least.

While it is true that Primaris Psykers are Ld 9, they are not stubborn like the commissar is nor do they allow the re roll (for the low low cost of a sergeant of course). So I don't think he helps all that much in that department.

Bio: I did read it. There is just too many things that could go wrong and your blob would be dead. You must succeed in casting the power. You have to go through enemy spell defense (which can be so strong you will have basically no chance) you have to go through deny the witch.

If you fail in only one of those things, your blob is dead meat

Testify wrote:I agree with Lothar. By all means use a Primaris to supplement the commissar, but never to replace.

Supplement is the best plan.

Lothar, it is true that a lot of stuff can go wrong. Let me back the perspective out a little bit.

I'm thinking in a 1500-1750 sized list one might have 2-3 shooty blobs and a ton of other stuff. The Primaris Psyker goes to the blob that is most likely to go forward to try and claim an objective.

In 5th, this unit would move up with meltas and a commissar, shoot lasguns at marines, shoot meltas at vehicles, and tie up anything that got in assault with it, hopefully dragging it down. In 6th, commissars are more vulnerable, rapid fire is better, and melta is a bit less necessary.

As a solution, you can double down on close assault and take a Lord Commissar, or you can gear the blob towards shooting. If you go for shooting, a regular commissar can be fine, but is pricey for an upgrade that really doesn't help shooting at all, it just makes it suck less when the squad can't shoot anymore. The Primaris Psyker actually helps the squad shoot better by doing some damage in the shooting phase and making the enemy have a harder time charging the squad.

Once this shooting blob gets close, to the enemy, you start your shooting phase with the psykic power. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. You would certainly deploy your Psyker differently (and go for different powers) if you were going against a rock hard psykic defense. If it doesn't work, you devote more of your army to shooting the unit down so it isn't a threat to your blob in close combat. If it does work, you severely cut down the squad's power for a turn, and free up your army elsewhere. It's sort of like a less severe, but more reliable form of pinning.

I would not put a primaris in the same squad as a commissar. A single perils roll would cause his head to have a sudden remodelling.