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Looking through the 6th edition book, I notice that Black Templars and Sisters of Battle are Desperate Allies. This doesn't make sense. Both organizations are fanatically loyal to the Emperor, both are distrustful of Psykers, neither has any real reason not to get on...

Or am I missing something?

They're fanatically loyal in different ways.

One see him as a god, the other as just a great warrior.

n0t_u wrote:They're fanatically loyal in different ways.

One see him as a god, the other as just a great warrior.

BT break the codex astartes in a quite blatent way too and as such dont want the sisters kicking around to "tell on them"

The biggest reason in my mind is along the same lines as what you have said, both are fanatics willing to kill and die for what they believe.

BT "for the emperor"
Sister "you mean "GOD" emperor right?"
BT "he isnt a god you crazy hag"
Sister "Blasphemy... you will be purged"
BT "Falcon punch"

You can find reasons, but in the end its just extra silly.

Aaaaand another one joins the club.

Yes, it's silly that the Black Templars are supposed to be the one Chapter the SoB have a problem with, especially when you're looking at their most recent experiences with the Space Wolves.

The Sisters don't have a clue about the Black Templars' opinion on the Codex, and if it were about the whole "Emps =/= God" thing then they'd be Desperate Allies with any and all Marine Chapters.
On the other hand we've got several mutual perks like fanatism, intense faith and psyker-hate, the BTs saving invaluable Ecclesiarchy relics from destruction on Armageddon, the BTs honoring the Sororitas on one of their banners, and the BTs having a number of joint operations with the Sisters (such as the Vinculus Crusade, where a Chapter Master and an Emperor's Champion fought together with a Canoness in an epic 3v1 against some badass demon).

So ... yeah, lots of people were wondering about it, and it's by far not the only thing that looks weird on the chart. But there are already a number of other threads on this issue, as well as alternate allies charts that were proposed. Just give it a quick search.

Well, we hadn't seen this thread yet today.

Some say it is silly and breaks the fluff, others look at it as Space Sunnis vs Space Shiites. The answer will apparently be revealed in future fluff.

Plus, no one really likes the Inquisition getting into their business. It would be like cops working with Internal Affairs. And I assume, you never read what happened when an inquisitor was sent to perform a census of the Templars?

Sisters of Battle aren't the Inquisition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You're probably thinking of the Inquisition. They're the Inquisition.


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Also, you'll note that BT and GK (who do represent Inquisition armies) are Allies of Convenience.

But they do work with the Ordo Hereticus...

So do Space Marines and Imperial Guard.

They were dragged into them for the Witch Hunters codex, but have reverted back to their old selves with this new WD one. So they're no longer a part of them, but do work with them on occasion.

Don't forget that Black Templars have rosarius which are from the Ecclesiarchy (as a sign of their common devotion to the Emperor). Space wolves don't get them and yet according to the chart the sisters of battle get along with them better.

Either way, from the Templars' point of view, they are outsiders poking their noses in where they don't belong.

And besides, neither the Sisters nor the Grey Knights are too terribly popular on the alliances chart...

Right, everyone gets that. Why are the BT more distrustful of the SoB than the SW though? After all, the SW and SoB have been in open conflict in the past.

I really need to finish reading the fluff section. Maybe there's something in there.

Necrosis wrote:Space wolves don't get them and yet according to the chart the sisters of battle get along with them better.

They do get one, actually (or used to at least - not sure this will still be the case after Fenris ) but re-forged them into silly wolf totems. A Chapter that doesn't get the Rosarius was the Iron Hands though.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Either way, from the Templars' point of view, they are outsiders poking their noses in where they don't belong.

Nope, you're thinking of the Dark Angels. Which are, for some reason, Allies of Convenience with the SoB.

If you have any GW fluff talking about Black Templars having an issue with the Sisters, do post it, though. Maybe we all just missed something in-between the stuff that talks about how well they get along.

@Lynata: They get a 'Wolf Amulet' now. It is not listed as a reforge anywhere, just a crazy wolf amulet.

It would be nice if GW actually made a section about why they chose the allys that they did. It doesnt make a lot of sense for BT and SoB.

But yet we shy away from the Inquisition because of our "unknowen numbers". Space Wolves are just about in the same boat. How many Wolves are there exactally???? Howmany crusades do we have????

The whole thing confuses me to be honest....

FYI, in the back of our codex, it states that there are over 7200 crusading Templars in the galaxy when our codex was written......

Not a lot to go off of since BT didn't get any blurbs in the main rulebook that I saw. Sneaking suspicion they get folded back into C:SM.


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@J99Pwrangler: SoB couldn't care less how many marines you have.

pretre wrote:@Lynata: They get a 'Wolf Amulet' now. It is not listed as a reforge anywhere, just a crazy wolf amulet.

Oh, that's interesting - and certainly much better fitting.
I wonder if this is a retcon or if there could be a story behind it, like the Ecclesiarchy having stopped its shipments and the SW now having to procure it from the Mechanicus directly or something.

pretre wrote:@J99Pwrangler: SoB couldn't care less how many marines you have.

Not to mention that the Index Astartes describes how it isn't that much of a concern for the Inquisition because of the Black Templars' loyalty. It's a little like with the Sisters and the Decree Passive, I guess.

Lynata wrote:

pretre wrote:@Lynata: They get a 'Wolf Amulet' now. It is not listed as a reforge anywhere, just a crazy wolf amulet.

Oh, that's interesting - and certainly much better fitting.
I wonder if this is a retcon or if there could be a story behind it, like the Ecclesiarchy having stopped its shipments and the SW now having to procure it from the Mechanicus directly or something.

Well, it is described as a 'potent amulet' and no more. They don't really go into it, but I imagine they got cut off from the Ecclesiarchy.

Aaaannnywayys...

J99Pwrangler wrote:
FYI, in the back of our codex, it states that there are over 7200 crusading Templars in the galaxy when our codex was written......

Those are some of the bigger Crusades in the history of the Black Templars, they're not taking place simultaneously.

Those are some of the bigger Crusades in the history of the Black Templars, they're not taking place simultaneously.

That was an estimate that the crusade made when they had gathered. It doesnt say anything about when those battles were taking place. Nobody knows exactally how many are out there. So its not accurate, but its not like it was one crusade jumpping from sector to sector that you count over and over again. Its all different crusades....

@pretre: well they sisters are buddies with the Inquisition? Right? The Inquisition cares how many Templars we have, so It could be a reason why we dont ally. Why should we be buddies with SoB if they would stick there nose in our business and fine out how many of us are actually around? I am just coming up with some reason why SoB dont like us, its not like the High Marshal didnt ask the SoB leader to dance at the Emperors Ball room or something.

Sisters aren't buddies anymore than Space Marines or IG are now. SoB are buddies with the Ecclesiarchy.

J99Pwrangler wrote:

Those are some of the bigger Crusades in the history of the Black Templars, they're not taking place simultaneously.

That was an estimate that the crusade made when they had gathered. It doesnt say anything about when those battles were taking place. Nobody knows exactally how many are out there. So its not accurate, but its not like it was one crusade jumpping from sector to sector that you count over and over again. Its all different crusades....

It lists the Terran Crusade, Vinculus Crusade and Jerulas Crusade, Crusades that we already know are over due to the fluff in the Codex.

I will illustrate what I think they were getting at with a quote:

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said "Stop! don't do it!" "Why shouldn't I?" he said. I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!" He said, "Like what?" I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?" He said, "Religious." I said, "Me too! Are you christian or buddhist?" He said, "Christian." I said, "Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?" He said, "Baptist!" I said,"Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of god or baptist church of the lord?" He said, "Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you original baptist church of god, or are you reformed baptist church of god?" He said,"Reformed Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?" He said, "Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!" I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off. -- Emo Phillips

The only thing worse than a complete infidel is someone who knows most of the truth, but maddeningly refuses to agree with you on the last few tenets.

Religious people are all flipping crazy

karlosovic wrote:Religious people are all flipping crazy

Amen to that!

Hawhaw, see what I did thar!

They may view The Emperor in different ways, but it still makes more sense that they would be Battle Brothers or Allies of Convenience. It's not like the two hate each other.