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Had a question come up last night fighting some Tau.
Squads can take dedicated marker lights in them. The rules for these Marker Lights indicate they fire at the same time as the Tau shooting, but the unit can also use them as normal markers.
So if a Tau unit with dedicated Marker Lights gets assaulted and shoot overwatch, do they get to shoot the Marker Lights also, then use those to increase the BS of their Overwatch shooting (say from BS1 to BS3)?
We thought it was OK in the spirit of the rules since that is the "normal" way the unit shoots, but that the marker Light shots would be at BS 1 (6s to hit), then he can use whatever markers hit in the usual fasion...well, that and he was playing Tau

On a side note, and in keeping with the way my dice suck...he charged my TH/SS termies (dropped them to 2 guys with 2 turns of heavy firing) with Sha'Sho and 2 drones. The HQ did nothing but I rolled ones against the drone hits and lost the Termies without doing any damage to his HQ.
So in the last month I've lost my TH/SS Terminators to Grots, Regular Guardsmen, and now a Drone.

Yes, you can use Markerlights when you Overwatch. And you can use Markerlight hits to increase the BS of the firing unit. Unfortunately, modifiers are applied before the firing unit's BS is set to 1, so it isn't going to do anything.


Also, you would be surprised at how often Gun Drones turn out to be MVPs in the Tau army.

The core rulebook gives a pretty clear "Order of Operations" in the new edition. Multiply and divide first, add and subtract second, and then finally insert set values. Overwatch and Snapfire are set values, so regardless of how much you add with markerlights, the set value is still BS 1. This would make Tau pretty darn awesome but sadly, not for now.

Something else, though, that I was wondering. The Tau FAQ states that a vehicle reduced to BS 1(Snapfire, such as shooting flyers) fires seeker missiles that are still BS 5, if you get a lucky markerlight hit on a flyer, is that seeker missile going to be BS 5?

^^ This, correct. Set value applied last.

And FYI, in general a unit cannot use its own markerlight hits unless they have a networked markerlight.

Networked Marker Lights...that was the phrase I was thinking of. Not "Dedicated."
Thanks all.

Networked Markerlights can be found on Marker Drones, Sniper Drone Team Spotters and on Sky Rays incidently.

So the markerlight carried by a Firewarrior Shas'ui or Pathfinder doesn't count. You'll need a Marker Drone.

I think the real question is why didn't the Tau player just scoop his models when you declaired the charge?

I once had a unit of drones beat my hormagaunts in CC... it was a very sad and depressing day....


You can't use the markerlights to increase BS, but you could use their other abilities.

mtorzula wrote:
The Tau FAQ states that a vehicle reduced to BS 1(Snapfire, such as shooting flyers) fires seeker missiles that are still BS 5, if you get a lucky markerlight hit on a flyer, is that seeker missile going to be BS 5?

I would like to hear other opinions on this.

Buttons wrote:

mtorzula wrote:
The Tau FAQ states that a vehicle reduced to BS 1(Snapfire, such as shooting flyers) fires seeker missiles that are still BS 5, if you get a lucky markerlight hit on a flyer, is that seeker missile going to be BS 5?

I would like to hear other opinions on this.

I don't have tau book nor want to check the faq.

but what i do know from the faq of the Whip coils / lash whips

if you have 2 set values, you roll off to see which one happens first. if the missile is bs 5 then has to snapfire at bs 1. or if he snapfires bs1 and then the seeker missile sets the value to 5. so it's a 50/50

Yeah, this is a case of two set values.

Firing at a zooming Flyer is always done as snap shots (at BS1) and a seeker missile is always fired at an assumed BS5.

Therefore each Seeker Missile you'd fire you would roll off to see which rule takes precedence.


I really, really hate GW's ruling on set values, personally. I think they should have just said that if you have two or more set value rules applying to the same situation they all cancel out and the normal value is used instead...although in the case of a seeker missile I guess you wouldn't technically have a normal BS to fall back on I suppose. But in most cases, like a Banshee Mask vs. a Whip Coil I think it would be such a better idea to say the two cancel each other out and the model's normal Initiative is used instead.

What about special over general?

Snap Shots is a General rule.

BS 5 Seeker Missiles is a special rule.

Jefffar wrote:What about special over general?

Snap Shots is a General rule.

BS 5 Seeker Missiles is a special rule.

Specific > General is a rule to help in rule-order interpretation of RAW. In this case, it doesn't apply because GW tells you exactly what to do in a situation where two set values are applied.

Why does it seem like everyone(including GW) are missing the Exceptions section on page 9? It says that the player whose turn it is decides the order in which things take effect if they are supposed to take effect at the same time.(condensed version as it is a whole paragraph)

My Banshees assault your Wraiths, I choose your wargear to go first, then mine. I am now I10.

Marker lights can only remove cover when used to overwatch at this time. I think there is a rule elswhere that matches what Yakface has said.

megatrons2nd wrote:Why does it seem like everyone(including GW) are missing the Exceptions section on page 9? It says that the player whose turn it is decides the order in which things take effect if they are supposed to take effect at the same time.(condensed version as it is a whole paragraph)
My Banshees assault your Wraiths, I choose your wargear to go first, then mine. I am now I10.

You're forgetting that pg 9 rule requires those multiple events to be simultaneous. Banshee mask effect doesn't happen same time as Whip coils do. Therefore, it doesn't work. FAQ entry about two set values on otherhand does, so roll-off each time (yay! best mechanic ever for having poor rules ftw).

Fake-edit: For the sarcasm impaired, IMO roll-off is very poor resolution mechanic.

yakface wrote:
Yeah, this is a case of two set values.

Firing at a zooming Flyer is always done as snap shots (at BS1) and a seeker missile is always fired at an assumed BS5.

Therefore each Seeker Missile you'd fire you would roll off to see which rule takes precedence.


I really, really hate GW's ruling on set values, personally. I think they should have just said that if you have two or more set value rules applying to the same situation they all cancel out and the normal value is used instead...although in the case of a seeker missile I guess you wouldn't technically have a normal BS to fall back on I suppose. But in most cases, like a Banshee Mask vs. a Whip Coil I think it would be such a better idea to say the two cancel each other out and the model's normal Initiative is used instead.

Looking at the FAQ on vehicles reduced to BS1 (ie Shaken or Stunned meaning reduced to Snap Shot) being able to fire Seekers at BS5 I would take it that as long as the Marker light hit the Seeker is going in at BS5.

Sothas wrote:I think the real question is why didn't the Tau player just scoop his models when you declaired the charge?

Are you kiddin? Back in 4th edition, I had a unit of Fire Warriors beat the Avatar of Khaine to death with the butts of their pulse rifles. THE AVATAR OF KHAINE! FIRE WARRIORS! It was an awesome day. Then they had to go and give the Eldar a new codex and bump the Avatar's toughness to 8. Sad day :\

Blackraine wrote:Then they had to go and give the Eldar a new codex and bump the Avatar's toughness to 8. Sad day :\

I don't know what Codex your friend is using, but I want one. The Avatar is T6. (Perhaps you meant a Wraithlord?)