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Hello - this isn't 6th related so it probably has already been asked, but how do cluster mines work if multiple units deploy in the same cover?

What if ratlings, a platoon, and a junior officer deploy in a ruin. Would the cluster mines do 2d6 to each unit, or only one? I'm thinking of starting marines and need to better understand scout bikers before i start buying models.

Thanks!

It doesn't. Cluster Mines: When operating../.../ Each scout bike squad equipped with cluster mines can booby-trap one piece of area terrain before the game starts. /.../ Cluster Mines are automaticly triggered the first time a unit (friend or foe) moves into the booby-trapped terrain. /.../ .

So you may only place them in Area Terrain, if units deploy in said terrain they are hit at the start of their first movement phase. If multiple units are deployed then the First unit deployed in the booby-trapped terrain suffers the hits.

STC_LogisEngine wrote:It doesn't. Cluster Mines: When operating../.../ Each scout bike squad equipped with cluster mines can booby-trap one piece of area terrain before the game starts. /.../ Cluster Mines are automaticly triggered the first time a unit (friend or foe) moves into the booby-trapped terrain. /.../ .

So you may only place them in Area Terrain, if units deploy in said terrain they are hit at the start of their first movement phase. If multiple units are deployed then the First unit deployed in the booby-trapped terrain suffers the hits.

The rulings I have seen is that the first unit to move inside the area terrain triggers it and takes the hit. So if you deploy in the trapped piece you are safe until you move. I think I have always seen it played this way, but I know for sure that INAT rules it like that.

Deploying stationary sniper scouts in area terrain is my favorite. Unit charges them and runs into booby traps.

Deployment represents units moving onto the board and taking up positions before the first turn starts, by deploying in the Area Terrain in question the unit has at some point moved into the terrain. Since this cannot be resolved immidiately becaus the game has not started it is resolved at the start of the owning players first turn. The RAW is ''Moves into'' not ''moves''. This means that if a unit uses it's scout move to move into said terrain the hits are resolved as it has completed it's out of turn movement but before the game begins.

If they Scout Move into the terrain then it triggers, yes.

If they deploy in the terrain then it doesn't until somebody moves after the game begins.

Are units that have to take a difficult terrain test forced to take one at the beginning of their first movement phase if they start the game in difficult terrain?

Are units that have to take a difficult terrain test forced to take one at the beginning of their first movement phase if they start the game in difficult terrain?

Now you are mixing apples and pears, this has nothing to do with the question at hand. Cluster Mines are an added Terrain Effect that triggers when a unit comes in contact with the terrain. By your definition if you deploy in the terrain then your unit can run around in it unhindered as long as no model leaves and re-enters the terrain because this does not constitute ''Moving Into'' the terrain but instead ''moving within''. Because that is one of two ways the RAW can be interpretated.



1.) Models deployed in area terrain are not concidered to have ever entered the terrain via movement; thus they do not tigger effects worded ''Moving into'' or ''when entering'' etc. in regards to this terrain and may therefore move around inside the area terrain in question without triggering the effect: they are, afterall, not moving "into" the terrain. they are moving "inside" the terrain.

Your interpretation that as long as the unit does not move won't fly. there is no backing for that assumption within the RAW. Either the unit triggers or it does not.
This interpretation has no complimentary /explanatory rules backing it and relies completely on RAW.

2.) Models deployed in area terrain ARE concidered to have entered the terrain via movement; thus will trigger any effects worded ''Moving into'' or ''when entering'' etc. in regards to this terrain. Effects are resolved at the start of the first turn.

Now this ruling acctually has some backing: BRB pg. 91: ''Instead, it is rolled for immidiately when a model enters it [the terrainfeature], or is in it at the start of the first game turn." While this is not a specific rule for Cluster Mines it sets the stage for how to interpret an effect that triggers via interaction between a unit and a piece of terrain.

If cluster mines trigger without moving just because you deployed there, then difficult terrain tests trigger without moving just because you deployed there.

Units that deployed in terrain did not move into the terrain during the game and don't trigger the cluster mines. Nothing in C:SM states otherwise.

I will stick with the INAT ruling, that's what everybody I play with uses.

If cluster mines trigger without moving just because you deployed there, then difficult terrain tests trigger without moving just because you deployed there.

False, the two rules have different premisses and thus you cannot put = between them. Difficult terrain comes into play when a unit moves into contact, through or leaves Difficult Terrain.
Cluster Mines comes into effect once a unit moves into [Contact] with the relevant area terrain. These are two completely separate issues and using one to disprove the other is inherently flawed.

Units that deployed in terrain did not move into the terrain during the game and don't trigger the cluster mines. Nothing in C:SM states otherwise.

Codex: Space Marines states none of the assumptions above. Nothing in the rules specify that they have to enter the terrain during their normal movement phase for the effect to trigger. Nothing in the rules specify that models deployed in the booby-trapped terrain are exempted and does not trigger the effect, also, nowhere does it say that deployment does not constitute moving into [contact] with terrain. BRB pg. 91 however rules that terrain effects that trigger upon 'moving into' terrain also triggers upon units being deployed in said terrain.

I will stick with the INAT ruling, that's what everybody I play with uses.

It is your right to use House Rules if you so wish and if you want to you should. Your ''INAT'' House Rule cherry-picks parts of the rules and ignores the rest and as a house rule that's fine, also it was made for the 5th ed. this is 6th ed. the rules have changed. Dakka YMDC however is about the acctual meaning of the rules and in this case the rules only allows for two interpretations.

Either deployed units does not trigger cluster mines and may hence move around inside the area terrain without triggering the effect as long as no models leave and then re-enters the terrain, though this means that you have to throw out the text on BRB pg. 91.

Or deployed units trigger Cluster Mines.

[Edit: Spelling]

INAT is not exactly a house rule, and the way I have been playing it is the way it has been played at every major tournament utilizing INAT.

And?

Modifying the core rules -> House Rule
FAQ not issued by GW -> House Rule

The number of individual using the modified rule has no bearing on wherever it is a House Rule or not.

STC_LogisEngine wrote:And?

Modifying the core rules -> House Rule
FAQ not issued by GW -> House Rule

The number of individual using the modified rule has no bearing on wherever it is a House Rule or not.

And per their own admission:

GW FAQs: House rules

I am sorry, I intended [Errata] not [FAQ]. My bad.

STC_LogisEngine: Deploying is not moving into.

Or is my Bastion Moving onto the field when it is deploying? How about Immobile units like Earthshaker Platforms?

Deploying is deploying, order of deployment does not determine the order that units have arrived at that spot(or within that terrain piece).

Scout-moving into a booby-trapped terrain piece will cause the mines to go off because; well a unit is moving into the piece.

d-usa: Slightly OT but, For this forums purposes; GW FAQ are RAW, not House rules.

I can buy that it does not constitute as moving, what I have been saying is that while it does not amount to moving it is treated as moving for the purpose of triggering terrain effects that are resolved upon firts contact with a unit. Leaning against brb pg. 91.

You are mixing up intentions here, "Counts as moving" contra "treated as moving for the purpose of this effect".

But I will also buy that we throw out what's written on brb pg. 91 and only consult RAW. This however gives that a unit deployed in area terrain "tagged" with Cluster Mines does not trigger the Cluster Mines when it moves within or, leaves this area cover. It only triggers if the unit or models in the unit leaves the area terrain and then moves back into it. And this becomes a bit counter-intuive when concidering possible RAI.

I will allow leaning on page 91 for support in this discussion.

Mainly because it helps to support a reading contrary to your claims.

If we look to the Mysterious terrain rules; we find a Bold section of text. Said Bold text explains when Mysterious terrain is rolled for.

Notice how there are 2 options; When entered, or immediately at the start of the first turn if models begin in the terrain?

It is the second bit's existence that disproves the claim that deploying in is the same as moving into/moving in.

Another argument against such claims would be Dangerous terrain. Do you posit we must have every model deployed inside dangerous terrain take the dangerous terrain test? Or can they simply wait until they actually move for their tests?


As for any RAI/ counter intuitive concerns for Moving within/Exiting Cluster Mined terrain; one could claim the models witnessed where the mines were placed/landed.

Scout is no longer a move, it's now a redeployment. So... you can now scout into booby trapped terrain without it triggering? Just looking for clarity