Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

To me it seemed that the imperium was without hope and slowly dieing to unbeatable forces such as the Daemons and Tyrinids.
In the new fluff it mentions the Emporer being a small hope and if humans can survive their evolution to phykers they will stay strong.

Have i miss-interpreted it and the Imperium is still hopeless?
Is this right? If so do you think it is better fluff?
Or has it always been like this?

Still hopeless. That's the point.

The fact that humanity could be saved through psykers makes the story deeper and sadder, because the IoM is pushing away their most vital asset, through fear.

The way the're going is still apocalyptically bad.

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

Ahriman who seeks the Black Library and reclaim everything lost at Prospero. Cypher who seeks an audience with the Emperor. The Lion of Caliban aka King Arthur of 40k sleeps until the Imperium needs him again. The Crimson King plots to destroy the current Imperium and restore it to what it once was. As far as the current Imperium is concerned, its bad...but considering these people knew and lived what the Emperor wanted - reason and enlightenment over faith and superstition - yes, there is hope for the future, just not what the Inquisition and Ecclesiarchy would like it.

Good the idea of a pretty much hopeless cause makes itmuch better.
A battles much re heroic when backed in a corner with almost no hope.

One word: Grimdark.

Good the idea of a pretty much hopeless cause makes it much better.
A battles much heroic when backed in a corner with almost no hope.

What they've done is given the Imperium an end game strategy, just like every other race. The possibility of humanity ascending into entirely psychic beings is highly improbable but not impossible. It might be less likely than other race's end game plans (Orks uniting under a common warboss, Eldar successfully resurrecting their pantheon, Chaos breaking through Cadia) but it's an end game, which the Imperium never really had before on a large scale.

jareddm wrote:What they've done is given the Imperium an end game strategy, just like every other race. The possibility of humanity ascending into entirely psychic beings is highly improbable but not impossible. It might be less likely than other race's end game plans (Orks uniting under a common warboss, Eldar successfully resurrecting their pantheon, Chaos breaking through Cadia) but it's an end game, which the Imperium never really had before on a large scale.

It was the old man's long-term goal, but he's dead now, so no point in worrying about it.

Their situation is said to still be fairly hopeless, but in terms of fluff management GW has improved their situation by downgrading the Necron threat as much as they did. Though conversely, 6th Edition also clearly is making Chaos the big baddie for them again.

I think the best thing that can be said is its hopeless no matter how you go about it. Everyone knows that eventually ther are all going to die and that there is nothing you can do about it but put forth your best effort everyday and struggle on the bitter end

Tadashi wrote:

It was the old man's long-term goal, but he's dead now, so no point in worrying about it.

I don't foresee a future for the foolish followers of tzentch.
Keep telling yourself HE's dead.... I for one, deem it beneficial to accept the course of the BRB.

1hadhq wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

It was the old man's long-term goal, but he's dead now, so no point in worrying about it.

I don't foresee a future for the foolish followers of tzentch.
Keep telling yourself HE's dead.... I for one, deem it beneficial to accept the course of the BRB.

Looking from an out-universe perspective, its clear that not just the Imperial Codexes, but also the rulebooks are written from and are biased to the Imperial perspective. I believe that I'm not the first to notice that for every source that says he's alive (if you can call THAT being alive), there are corresponding sources that says he's dead. By all rights, one of the Primarchs (preferably Guilliman) should have stepped forward and taken the Imperial Throne after the Horus Heresy instead of letting the corrupt leaders of the Adeptus Terra (who are not really all that different from the traitors they claim they're better than) maintain their authority as the High Lords of Terra.

I personally think the fluff makes the situation of the Imperium bleak, but possibly survivable. The situation is still horrible, but fluff changes (the biggest of them being the necrons) make most of the enemies less threatening, Tyranids can be stalemated by Orks, Necrons can be stopped or negotiated with, Chaos is still a big threat, and I would probably wait for their new codex to come out to see what happe,s regarding their threateningness. Overall I like it more, some hope makes the setting easier to invest in instead of thinking "Meh, nothing matters, the Nids eat everything in the end anyway, so these battles are useless."

Tadashi wrote:

Looking from an out-universe perspective, its clear that not just the Imperial Codexes, but also the rulebooks are written from and are biased to the Imperial perspective.

The truth doesn't become a lie just because it is shown from a imperial perspective. If the rulebook could be seen as imperial biased at all. The main actor is the IoM and as reported from an open day of the studio, it sounds like the designers at GW will keep it that way.

Tadashi wrote:I believe that I'm not the first to notice that for every source that says he's alive (if you can call THAT being alive), there are corresponding sources that says he's dead.

BRB beats all of these fanfiction claims.

The new course is clear, he isn't walking again amongst his followers, but he still plays the game to win it in the end, no matter the cost. Looking at the remnants of his physical form, he was able to alter his look to whatever he wanted to be in his 'mobile' form and IMO all they deliver there is just a pic. All of his enemies refer to the Emperor as an active opponent in the present, not the past. The playfield changed maybe, but this is 40k where things may not end with the existance of a physical body.