Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well, as we all know, Ogryns suck big time. They are supposed to be Imperial Guard Terminator equivalents, meant to either counter-assault or charge into the enemy (obviously).

Still, their overly high cost and pretty bad stats do not make them justice. They struggle even against infantry in close combat, such as Necron Warriors or Assault Marines, even though they cost nearly as much as assault terminators and aren't quite as durable, even though they do have higher toughness and more wounds. Still, their strangely low armor saves and leadership makes them a situational option at best, and a waste of points at worst. In the fluff they are supposed to crush tanks with their fists and shrug off bullets with their bare skin. Then again, fluff =/= game balance.

In order to make them playable, you would preferably need a Lord Commissar to give them LD10, which is a total of 200 points spent just to warm the guys up, not to mention taking extra models into the squad or giving them a ride. That would be almost a full squad of assault termies points wise, who can really blow stuff up by default.

On the other hand, Nork Deddog can be a nice addition for a Straken CCS, for example. His stats represent those all Ogryns should have had in the first place. But lets cut the and move on to the proposed rules.

Ogryn Squad: 90p
-1 Bone 'Ead
-2 Ogryns

May have up to seven
-additional Ogryns.......30p per model

The Bone 'Ead may be upgraded to carry
-Frag and Krak Grenades............10p

Special Rules:
-Feel No Pain
-Bulky
-Stubborn
-Confusion*
-Gout of Rage**

*Ogryns are simple minded brutes. Should the Bone 'Ead die, any order given to them will automatically fail, as the Ogryns are unable to comprehend the order without the Bone 'Ead's "taktikul expertis".
**If the last Ogryn model in a unit loses its final wound to the enemy, roll a D3. In a final burst of desperate rage for the death of his fallen squadmates, the last Ogryn scores that many extra wounds against the enemy squad(s) it was engaging in close combat before being removed as a casualty. No saves of any kind are allowed against these wounds. The wounds are allocated to random models in base contact with the Ogryn. If the Ogryn suffers a hit which causes instant death or if he is killed from range, this rule does not apply.

Ogryn
WS 6 BS 3 S 6 T 5 W 2 I 3 A 3 LD 7 SV +4

Bone 'Ead
WS 6 BS 3 S 6 T 5 W 3 I 3 A 3 LD 8 SV +4

This would give them some fluff credibility, amking them a lot tougher. Notice that the regular Ogryns only have two wounds as their armor save was raised. This indicates that they have been outfitted with carapace armor, as they are too valuable to be issued the standard flak armor. The raised weapon skill indicates the size of their huge weapons. It is nearly impossible for a 4-5ft tall abhuman to miss with a weapon nearly the size of a man, even though their opponent was agile, and just holding the weapon horizontally in front of the wielder is enough to shield from most blows.

Ogryns (even though they have Stubborn) have been given slightly better LD values to indicate their simplicity. They simply cannot be corrupted or scared as they are far too simple to really comprehend the horrors they see. Seeing their squadmates die just fuels their violent temper. Strenght is raised to match their fluffy description more acutely. They have slightly better initiative because I imagine them charging the enemy using their sheer mass, which can frighten or disorient certain enemies. However, such a clumsy rush can be dodged with relative ease, given enough space, robbing them of their initiative.

Ballistic Skill is the same, as I don't see them as much of marksmans.

Ehh I think these changes are a bit much. WS6? FNP? S6 all the time? All for 30 points? The only thing nerfed is the W statline

I'd much rather have the vanilla ogryns at 30 points and give the option for a power weapon on the bone head. Maybe even a heavy flamer.

No, Ogryn are simple brutes, they rely on brute force to win, not the skill and finesse of a high WS or I. Their stats should be more like

Ogryn: 30(40) Points per Model (all stats in parentheses are the Bone'ead stats)
WS: 4 BS: 3 S: 5 T: 5 W: 3 I: 2 A: 3(4) Ld: 6 (7) Sv: 5+

Options:
Any Ogryn can take
Carapace Armour: 4 PPM

Can replace their Ripper Gun with:
Hitting Stick: 5 PPM Gives +2 strength
Pair of Brass Knuckles: 5 PPM +2 attacks
Ripper Pistol and Close Combat Weapon: 3 PPM
Battle Shield and Ripper Pistol: 10 PPM (4+ invul save)

Fluff wise a Hitting Stick is a big blunt object (a giant tree branch, a fence or sign post, or a crew served weapon such as an autocannon that the Ogryn can't use), Brass Knuckles are just that, and a battle shield is something like a slab of concrete or a chimera door. As for the Ripper Pistol, just give it the same stats as the ripper gun instead of Marbo's super pistol except make it a pistol, so str 5, AP 5? don't know, range 12", pistol.

This is what Ogryn should be like IMO, brutes who win by beating the enemy with whatever they can find. No one would give them power weapons since they are too simple minded and are abhumans. They shouldn't be super soldiers above marines, nor should they be literal monsters that can take a carnifex one on one.

kenshin620 wrote:Ehh I think these changes are a bit much. WS6? FNP? S6 all the time? All for 30 points? The only thing nerfed is the W statline

I'd much rather have the vanilla ogryns at 30 points and give the option for a power weapon on the bone head. Maybe even a heavy flamer.

Nork Deddog is pretty much like that, the only difference is that he has WS 4 and S 5. Still he isn't that overpowered and can be taken down quite easily.

You are right, now that I think of it thirty points per model is pretty cheap. But then again, they were supposed to be termie equivalents. Maybe fourty points per model isn't bad after all, considering the changes. Thirty points would do if they were like they are in the Codex.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Buttons wrote:No, Ogryn are simple brutes, they rely on brute force to win, not the skill and finesse of a high WS or I. Their stats should be more like

Ogryn: 30(40) Points per Model (all stats in parentheses are the Bone'ead stats)
WS: 4 BS: 3 S: 5 T: 5 W: 3 I: 2 A: 3(4) Ld: 6 (7) Sv: 5+

Options:
Any Ogryn can take
Carapace Armour: 4 PPM

Can replace their Ripper Gun with:
Hitting Stick: 5 PPM Gives +2 strength
Pair of Brass Knuckles: 5 PPM +2 attacks
Ripper Pistol and Close Combat Weapon: 3 PPM
Battle Shield and Ripper Pistol: 10 PPM (4+ invul save)

Fluff wise a Hitting Stick is a big blunt object (a giant tree branch, a fence or sign post, or a crew served weapon such as an autocannon that the Ogryn can't use), Brass Knuckles are just that, and a battle shield is something like a slab of concrete or a chimera door. As for the Ripper Pistol, just give it the same stats as the ripper gun instead of Marbo's super pistol except make it a pistol, so str 5, AP 5? don't know, range 12", pistol.

This is what Ogryn should be like IMO, brutes who win by beating the enemy with whatever they can find. No one would give them power weapons since they are too simple minded and are abhumans. They shouldn't be super soldiers above marines, nor should they be literal monsters that can take a carnifex one on one.

Well, that could also work. However, +2S hits for only five points more and Brass Knuckles which give +2 attacks seem pretty cheap in points. They should be more like 10 or 15PPS IMHO. Ripper Pistols also seem a bit too much, considering they could kill multiple tanks in one shooting phase.

Ogryns are about 5 points over-priced as is. You've reduced the cost by 10 points, and given them bonus WS, S and FNP to boot.

Testify wrote:Ogryns are about 5 points over-priced as is. You've reduced the cost by 10 points, and given them bonus WS, S and FNP to boot.

Indeed, but as I said in the original post, fluff=/=game balance. If these rules were made to fit actual gameplay and not fluff, they would break the game, as even termies would struggle against them. That's why I said these were fluffy rules in the subject title.

I run ogryns as is anyway...with pretty good effect. The only upgrade i would like would be the ability to give 1 Ogryn a power fist for every 5 ogryns in the group.

Other than that i think they do fine as is.

While I'm here, the last tournament i played someone mentioned that Ogryns and Ratlings cannot take orders. I feel like i've read this somewhere too but can't find it in the IG codex...Any thoughts? help? Was this in a faq?

skarousis wrote:I run ogryns as is anyway...with pretty good effect. The only upgrade i would like would be the ability to give 1 Ogryn a power fist for every 5 ogryns in the group.

Other than that i think they do fine as is.

While I'm here, the last tournament i played someone mentioned that Ogryns and Ratlings cannot take orders. I feel like i've read this somewhere too but can't find it in the IG codex...Any thoughts? help? Was this in a faq?

I have never heard they cannot take orders. The closest possible restriction I can think of considers Ministorum Priests' Righteous Fury, which has no effect on Ogryns and Ratlings. As far as I know, Guardsman Marbo is the only character who doesn't take orders.