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With the changes of the CCB to a chariot is there any reason you'd want the CCB to ever be in combat? Since quantum shielding doesn't effect the rear, and all CC attacks against vehicles are taken against the rear armor, even a standard unit of tactical marines with krak grenades and a powerfist seem inevitable to wreck a barge. Is there something tactically I'm missing as to why the CCB is useful for anything other than sweep attacks?

buddha wrote:With the changes of the CCB to a chariot is there any reason you'd want the CCB to ever be in combat? Since quantum shielding doesn't effect the rear, and all CC attacks against vehicles are taken against the rear armor, even a standard unit of tactical marines with krak grenades and a powerfist seem inevitable to wreck a barge. Is there something tactically I'm missing as to why the CCB is useful for anything other than sweep attacks?

If you know that you can likely win a combat then charging doesn't seem like that bad of an idea, the d6 s6 hits is pretty useful. If its a choice between charging ot being charged then got for it.

D6 hits, the guy inside can attack, and MSS can go off on anyone in contact with the CCB. Not sure how much it works with if they can choose to attack the rider or the barge or is it randomized or what not but just remember to not charge a Dreadnaught.

Can you even attack the CCB in assault? Rule says something like your considered base to base with the Overlord doesn't it?

General_Chaos wrote:Can you even attack the CCB in assault? Rule says something like your considered base to base with the Overlord doesn't it?

It would be great if you couldn't but the CCB can be targeted.

Other than select backfielders like rangers and non-grenade toting units, I guess I'm still not seeing any value in the CCB other than the sweep attacks for most enemies.

Don't have lots of good experience either with the new CCB. Once in melee, it tends to get destroyed in the very first round of combat since everyone carries Meltabombs, Krakk, Power Fists, etc. around and AV 11 is paper-thin.

IF the CCB survives the first round of combat, it wrecks the enemy hard as you sweep, shoot AND charge again with HoW.

But overall, the huge nerf to the Sweeping Attack made it far less attractive.

Problem is that I lack of other possibilites to properly field our Overlords...they are most likely to function like a better Necron Lord.

Prone to take Imotekk too now, or Nemesor. Going to use my former CCB as Annihilation Barges now as they still kick ass.

Im not certain but you can still make challenges from a ccb, right? Just challenge each turn (mss + a gretchin is the best challenge monkey in 40k now, much less on a warscythe wielding overlord). If they fail to accept nuke the much weaker squad (one of which will be scarabed for its trouble).

Sweeps, impacts and general combat isnt bad for the upgrade. I do agree its not as auto take as in 5th though with its sweep mobility nerfed.

lazarian wrote:Im not certain but you can still make challenges from a ccb, right? Just challenge each turn (mss + a gretchin is the best challenge monkey in 40k now, much less on a warscythe wielding overlord). If they fail to accept nuke the much weaker squad (one of which will be scarabed for its trouble).

Sweeps, impacts and general combat isnt bad for the upgrade. I do agree its not as auto take as in 5th though with its sweep mobility nerfed.

You cannot make challenges from a CCB.

Sasori wrote:

lazarian wrote:Im not certain but you can still make challenges from a ccb, right? Just challenge each turn (mss + a gretchin is the best challenge monkey in 40k now, much less on a warscythe wielding overlord). If they fail to accept nuke the much weaker squad (one of which will be scarabed for its trouble).

Sweeps, impacts and general combat isnt bad for the upgrade. I do agree its not as auto take as in 5th though with its sweep mobility nerfed.

You cannot make challenges from a CCB.

ok scratch all of that and take a destroyer lord with wraiths, much less hassle, plus your barges become anny barges.

Sasori wrote:

lazarian wrote:Im not certain but you can still make challenges from a ccb, right? Just challenge each turn (mss + a gretchin is the best challenge monkey in 40k now, much less on a warscythe wielding overlord). If they fail to accept nuke the much weaker squad (one of which will be scarabed for its trouble).

Sweeps, impacts and general combat isnt bad for the upgrade. I do agree its not as auto take as in 5th though with its sweep mobility nerfed.

You cannot make challenges from a CCB.

Whoa, what?
Is there a citation for that?

There are still a lot of squads that can't get past an armour value of 11. And the chariot attacks can also be useful against vehicles (or, at the very least, getting the o'lord to assault the vehicle while he remains in his nice, metal shell)

skoffs wrote:

Sasori wrote:

lazarian wrote:Im not certain but you can still make challenges from a ccb, right? Just challenge each turn (mss + a gretchin is the best challenge monkey in 40k now, much less on a warscythe wielding overlord). If they fail to accept nuke the much weaker squad (one of which will be scarabed for its trouble).

Sweeps, impacts and general combat isnt bad for the upgrade. I do agree its not as auto take as in 5th though with its sweep mobility nerfed.

You cannot make challenges from a CCB.

Whoa, what?
Is there a citation for that?

Rulebook p82, under the heading "Challenges".

I thought you could not attack the Chariot, as I found nothing that said otherwise. Can someone point me to the part that says you can?

It depends on whether the chariot and the rider are the same unit or not. If they are the same unit the controlling player decides how to allocate the "wounds" (mixed av and infantry nightmare ensues). Also hits would roll against the riders WS if it's higher.

If they are separate units fun stuff happens. First if the chariot gets charged the charging unit suffers from a disordered charge and doesn't get a charge bonus. However they can freely target the vehicle and/or its rider. Also you would have to declare the overlord as a secondary target when charging or you'd be within 1" of the base of an unengaged enemy unit and wouldn't be able to charge at all.

IHateNids wrote:I thought you could not attack the Chariot, as I found nothing that said otherwise. Can someone point me to the part that says you can?

"Vehicles and Assaults" on page 76. In other words, nothing in Chariot rules says that one couldn't attack it.
Longer explanation: Any models with b2b with Chariot are considered to be in b2b with both Chariot and its passenger. Therefore, each engaged model can split attacks between them as he wishes (Multiple combats, page 28).

It's actually good to know about the disordered assault, didn't pick up on that aspect. However, even with the lack of a charge bonus I'm still not seeing, outside of select units, why you'd ever want the CCB in combat.

I use it strictly to assault vehicles. You dont get a 24" sweep anymore but you can move 12" + 2d6 charge. You can sweep anything along the way.

if you assault a Chariot all the hits are resolved against the Rider.

An Overlord in a Barge can never be shot (shooting is resovled against the Barge)
A CCB can never be charged (assaults are resolved against the Lord).

Plus the Chariot gives the Lord +1 to his armour so your basic overlord gets a Sempiternal Weave for free.

Praxiss wrote:if you assault a Chariot all the hits are resolved against the Rider.

Source?

I've scrapped my CCB due to always having it taken out by a power claw or melta bomb. It's nice Str 4 can't hurt it but only being WS 1 no matter its speed really hurts it.

Gangrel767 wrote:

Praxiss wrote:if you assault a Chariot all the hits are resolved against the Rider.

Source?

I thought that was how it was stated in the rulebook....guess not.

I am going to keep using mine for the time being. Only played 3 games so far but it has perfoemd well in all of them.

Tarrasq wrote:It depends on whether the chariot and the rider are the same unit or not. If they are the same unit the controlling player decides how to allocate the "wounds" (mixed av and infantry nightmare ensues). Also hits would roll against the riders WS if it's higher.
If they are separate units fun stuff happens. First if the chariot gets charged the charging unit suffers from a disordered charge and doesn't get a charge bonus.

This is false. You only suffer from disordered charge if you declare charge against two or more units. And you can only to declare charge against CCB, not it's embarked passengers.

Tarrasq wrote:
However they can freely target the vehicle and/or its rider. Also you would have to declare the overlord as a secondary target when charging or you'd be within 1" of the base of an unengaged enemy unit and wouldn't be able to charge at all.

No you don't. Overlord is still embarked on the CCB and is ignored for charge purposes (except that it can fire overwatch, just as any embarked passenger could). When the charging models get b2b with CCB, they're also considered to be in b2b with its passenger, but this doesn't restrict charge at all.

Anyone who argues that charging CCB is disordered charge is also arguing that the CCB's passenger could be seperately targeted by shooting. I'm fine with that though, easy to snipe him down with lascannon

So for charging purposes the Barge and the lord are one (so not a multi-charge). Oobviously the barge can't overwatch (being a vehicle) and the only ranges weapons a lord can have is a Staff of Light or Flamer (kind of useless in a Barge though) or a Tachyon Arrow (expensive).

Can someone confirm that the unit attacking the CCB can choose if they hit the CCB or the Lord? I was under the impression that any CC attack targetted the Lord only, while any shootign attacks targetted the barge only.