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Feedback would be nice.
I've only played one short game in 6th, so I'd like some guidance in how this list will work.
I have taken SM allies to in order to gain access to the Storm Talon (my only thing that can skyfire). It also gives me access to the same stuff as DA, but at a cheaper cost (vindicator) and a better librarian, and Scouts as troops.

sidenote: I'll list the guys in a unit in order of front to back (who will take saves first)
So here is my 2000 pts of DW and SM, what do you think?

HQ: Belial with TH/SS (stands in front takes all saves with the exception of anything that will insta-kill him)
TRP: DW Terminators: TH/SS, TH/SS, LC/DW Std, LC/Apoth, LC/CML

HQ: SM Librarian with Force Axe, Storm Shield, Epistolary, and two new psychic powers??? *ALLIES*
TRP: DW Termies: TH/SS, TH/SS, LC, LC, LC/CML

TRP: DW Termies: TH/SS, TH/SS, LC, LC, TH/SS/CML
TRP: DW Termies: TH/SS, TH/SS, LC, LC, TH/SS/CML
TRP: SM Scouts: 4 sniper rifles, srg with sniper rifle and teleport homer *ALLIES*

FA: RW bike squad: 2 melta guns, Srg with Melta bombs
FA: RW support squad: Land Speeder with TML/MM
FA: RW support squad: Land Speeder with TML/MM
FA: Storm Talon with TL AC and TML *ALLIES*

HS: SM Vindicator with Dozer Blade *ALLIES*

I think your list is good. There are lots of nasties (Termies, Termies more termies, flyers, Vindi). The scout squad could use a missile launcher instead of the homer. The RW bike squad already has homers built-in.

If you have 5-10 points, some Chainfist won't hurt.

RE: SM librarian powers in the book. He can try gambling with biomancy, but Null Zone and Vortex are already too good.

Thanks for the input,

I'm gonna keep the scout's teleport homer, just so I can have
options of where I want to go, and your right, I should grab a msl for them, if I can find the extra pts for them.

I do like the chainfist idea. how is this for the two termie squads without an IC: TH/SS, TH/SS, LC, LC, SB/CF/CML?

for the Librarian, I'm not sold on either of those powers, but I haven't gotten a good look at either the SM powers or the powers in the main book. Does anyone else have anything to add about what is best for a Librarian to use?

Your missing another HQ from the DA's codex. In 2k you need 2 hq's and 4 troops from your main army minimum. I am not sure if allies doubles as well. It seems like they do, but that could be a difference of opinions there.

Whats the stormtalon for? I would just rather take a Speeder with the TML for cheaper.

Storm talon is there as my Anti-air interceptor. As I have nothing else with skyfire. Also, my FA for Dark Angels is full and the SM Land Speeder than the Dark Angels Land Speeders.

I also just finished my storm talon conversion and really want to use it.

balsak_da_mighty wrote:Your missing another HQ from the DA's codex. In 2k you need 2 hq's and 4 troops from your main army minimum. I am not sure if allies doubles as well. It seems like they do, but that could be a difference of opinions there.

Whats the stormtalon for? I would just rather take a Speeder with the TML for cheaper.

I don't think it says you "HAVE" to have 2 focs at 2k you just have the option.

The ravenwing bikes are just too expensive. I would seriously recommend not teleporting at all, so you can stay on the board and fire at the enemy every turn.

So I would drop the bikers and the teleport homer for Telion and camo cloaks, then another typhoon.

yeah, I hate how expensive the RW bikes are. But I figured having some scouting or outflanking meltas would be really helpful.
But the TML/MM speeders are a lot of fun.
Oops, I had camo cloaks, I just forgot to write that in there.
Sorry, I don't know the SM codex as well as the DA, what is the benefit of Srg Telion? The goal of my scouts is to hold an objective and to snipe Monstrous Creatures (a good friend of mine always brings her wraithlord). Will Telion help in this case?


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Changing up the list because scouts just don't have enough killing power for me. I figured a small tact squad in a razorback could do better.
Took out the RW bikes, to expensive. Replaced with another RW speeder.
My Librarian will have powers from divination that will either make his squad tougher or more deadly, either way is good for me.
What do you think?

HQ: Belial TH/SS
TRP: DW Terminators: TH/SS/Srg, TH/SS, LC/DW STd, LC/Apoth, LC/CML

HQ ALLIES: SM Librarian in Terminator armor with storm shield and power axe and epistolary. Take two powers from Divination, hope for rolls of 1,2,3, or 4. If I roll 5 or 6, probably replace with the primaris power. *ALLIES*
TRP: DW Terminators: TH/SS/Srg, TH/SS, LCx2, LC/CML

TRP: DW Terminators: TH/SS/Srg, TH/SSx2, LC, LC/CML
TRP: DW Terminators: TH/SS/Srg, TH/SSx2, LC, LC/CML
TRP ALLIES: SM Tact squad, 4 marines + Srg with PW/bolt pistol *ALLIES*
TRP ALLIES: SM Razorback las/plas with dozer blade *ALLIES*

FA: RW Land speeder with TML/MM
FA: RW Land speeder with TML/MM
FA: RW Land speeder with TML/MM
FA ALLIES: SM Storm Talon with TML/TL AC *ALLIES*

HS ALLIES: SM Vindicator with dozer blade *ALLIES*

No, the scouts are better.
I would actually consider a DA tactical squad in razorback instead, just to bring a meltagun.

Telion has stealth that is +1 cover save and an automatic 6+ save for his squad, that adds to the camocloaks +1 save.
All of his shots are precision shots. In terms of killing monsters he'll need to roll 6s to wound, but what is new.

MFletch wrote:No, the scouts are better.
I would actually consider a DA tactical squad in razorback instead, just to bring a meltagun.

Telion has stealth that is +1 cover save and an automatic 6+ save for his squad, that adds to the camocloaks +1 save.
All of his shots are precision shots. In terms of killing monsters he'll need to roll 6s to wound, but what is new.

Yeah a DA tact squad could get a meltagun. but I need a SM allied troop choice in order to verify bringing these benefits:
1. Better Librarian. If it was a DA libby in termie armor I could not have a SS, or Epistolary, or Divination powers
2. Cheaper Vindicator: not by much, but might as well since I do already have allies
3. Storm Talon: my only anti-air power. Also, I just really wanted to use my latest toy.

So the question is. . . .
do I use SM scouts as allied troops, and use extra pts on ???
or do I use SM tact squad with a Razorback (more big guns!) as my allied trp choice?

Sorry I misread your lsit, I thought you were bring 2 razorbacks.
Telion is so awesome, I would have him as a troop choice.

If it weren't for the stormtalon, I would suggest 2 rune priests, razorback grey hunters and a vindicator.

MFletch wrote:Sorry I misread your lsit, I thought you were bring 2 razorbacks.
Telion is so awesome, I would have him as a troop choice.

If it weren't for the stormtalon, I would suggest 2 rune priests, razorback grey hunters and a vindicator.

No way I would invite the space puppies to fight by my side!

(though, I do respect them, they make a great army and have some cool fluff and models)

Moronic Nonsense wrote:

MFletch wrote:Sorry I misread your lsit, I thought you were bring 2 razorbacks.
Telion is so awesome, I would have him as a troop choice.

If it weren't for the stormtalon, I would suggest 2 rune priests, razorback grey hunters and a vindicator.

No way I would invite the space puppies to fight by my side!

(though, I do respect them, they make a great army and have some cool fluff and models)

I am more shocked you can now play alongside aliens, my dark angels have changed.

I can accept allies. But there are a few things I will not do, even though the ally chart says it is possible.

There is no way that my DA will ever buddy up with orks or SWs!

besides that I'm excited about this list. Hopefully I get to try it out tonight (the second one with tact marines not scouts)

well that was a hit or miss.

My first game I absolutely crushed the Tau.
What did it here for me was the new wound allocation. When his suits shot their plasmas, instead of everyone taking a wound and everyone dieing except the TH/SS, now the TH/SS took all the shots and no one died. and then I got into combat and there is the game.
I would have tabled him, but in one corner with no one elso to help I had two LC terminators fighting 3 broadsides. They made all their 2+ armor saves.

My next game was complete opposite. I faced Deamons (this guy has always given me a good fight, and he has also won at some big tournaments). His list had fateweaver and 3 other flying MCs. As well as a big Bloodcrusher squad with an HQ in it.
to make the story short, I could barely even hit the fateweaver, and when I did, he always passed his saves. The Flying MC vector striked and pretty much destroyed all my vehicles. Belials squad died quickly to the Bloodcrushers and some other beasts that joined the fight, but Belial held up the Bloodcrushers for a couple of turns by challenging his Bloodcrusher warlord. Eventually winning out because of his 2+, but then the other 10 Bcrushers got to swing and Belial went down.
My mistake was spreading my guys out, trying to block big open DS spots. He was able to kill me squad by squad.
But what can I do about a Flying Fateweaver?

Drop Ally lasplas razor and take a quadgun for the tac to man. Every time the you hit a flying MC, he has to take a ground test. Every time he grounds is a D3 no save allowed (so fateweaver cannot even help).

Is it no armor saves allowed or no saves of any kind allowed?
The fateweaver has a 3+ rerollable invul I think.

"No armour or cover save allowed" so he can take whatever re-roll invul he has. I am looking at his entry in the codex and he only seems to have 3+ invulnerable save and nothing else. His buff is only 6" and any time he takes a wound, a failed Ld test and he ID himself.

The best way to take out fateweaver chaos list is probably with GK ally.

Another thing you can do is to take SM librarian with Null zone. Repeatingly casting Null zone will force the daemon player to reroll all his saves. That means any units outside of the 6" bubble of Fateweaver will have to reroll his pass saves. Any units within 6" of Fateweaver including himself will not be able to use his special rule of rerolling saves since all daemon have is invul save.

Put the librarian into a transport and keep casting Null Zone just for the fun of it.

Yeah, I should have taken the codex powers so I could have null zone, but I was trying out the new powers.
Also, because I was spread out, the half of my army that Fateweaver and friends took out first did not have the LIbrarian in it.
I think I should have consolidated and stuck closer together and used null zone.

Against Daemon, a Null Zone blob is probably best. Against other blobs, you can always take other powers.

I have been trying the new powers lately. My recent experience with them has been rather bad. They typically underperform comparing to good powers (Jaws, Null Zone, Rage ...)

Well for my SM LIbrarian, he runs with a deathwing squad of 2x TH/SS and 3x LCs with one CML.

I take two powers from biamancy, hoping for results 1,2,3, and maybe 4. Enfeeble has worked well. I want Iron arm, but haven't gotten it in my two games. Warpspeed was also good for me.

Though, next time I play against that demon guy, I will definately keep the codex power null zone. any idea what my second codex power should be?

Vortex or The Avenger. But don't worry too much since you won't be casting them. :-) Also, Null Zone only last for your turn (and is cast in the shooting phase).

My librarian also takes Epistolary, so I can use two powers in a turn.

I am scared of Vortex, I would hate to see him fail a psychic test and obliterate himself and a termie squad.

I use LC on my Belial, much more useful to have the extra attacks at a higher init.

Ezekiel's a good choice if you don't want the SM version. Mastery 1, three powers from Divination, Pyromancy, Telekinesis and Telepathy. Master Crafted Force weapon and pistol, with artificer armor and psychic hood and everyone within 12" is fearless (if they didn't have it already, lol).

Nah, don't be scared. Take a 15 points upgrade to get him a stormshield, and always place him 2" from everybody else. the small blast is only 3" total. That means if he is more than 1" from everyone else, he cannot hurt another guy. ;-)

Look at it this way: you are spending 175 points on a model (190 with the SS). He has to take out 2-3 Razorback or 2 Vindi or 2 other HQs to make back that much points.

He will have 1 chance to assault something the entire game. He is definitely going against something big and nasty. That Str 10 AP1 is a gamble worth trying. You can one shot 2 Vindi, paladin squads, other SS termies squad. You can even cast Null Zone, Vortex that land raider or stormraven and then charge everyone inside.

Vortex was bad when blast didn't have full strength. Now it is ridiculously awesome.

RxGhost wrote:I use LC on my Belial, much more useful to have the extra attacks at a higher init.

Ezekiel's a good choice if you don't want the SM version. Mastery 1, three powers from Divination, Pyromancy, Telekinesis and Telepathy. Master Crafted Force weapon and pistol, with artificer armor and psychic hood and everyone within 12" is fearless (if they didn't have it already, lol).

I used to be all for the LC on Belial, but now with LCs only being ap3 and challenges, I wanted Belial to be able to live through a challange and kill anyone (or at least not worry about 2+ armor)
Oh, yeah, stick him in front of a squad with an apothecary and he will soak up the wounds (except for S8 and better, LoS!)

I didn't think about using Ezekiel, I just saw Mastery 1 and said no, but with three powers total, maybe I should look into him again.


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leohart wrote:Nah, don't be scared. Take a 15 points upgrade to get him a stormshield, and always place him 2" from everybody else. the small blast is only 3" total. That means if he is more than 1" from everyone else, he cannot hurt another guy. ;-)

Look at it this way: you are spending 175 points on a model (190 with the SS). He has to take out 2-3 Razorback or 2 Vindi or 2 other HQs to make back that much points.

He will have 1 chance to assault something the entire game. He is definitely going against something big and nasty. That Str 10 AP1 is a gamble worth trying. You can one shot 2 Vindi, paladin squads, other SS termies squad. You can even cast Null Zone, Vortex that land raider or stormraven and then charge everyone inside.

Vortex was bad when blast didn't have full strength. Now it is ridiculously awesome.

You make a very good argument for Vortex.
Ok, you convinced me. Null Zone and Vortex will be my powers for my SM Librarian if I take the Codex powers.

You have mostly power weapons, which is great. Then went against an army with most just pure inv. saves. Having said that you have reasonable firepower but withstand assault so I think your list is reasonable enough to deal with daemons.

I think you are unlucky or more to say that the daemons had a great day. This happens for them sometimes.
The days when the fateweaver will not die, are happy ones.
The days when their preferred choice of reserves arrive are happy ones.
The days with little mishaps teleporting are happy ones. (Though rarer to die straight, coming in later or being placed in a corner is a big issue for them)

If you got lucky killing the fateweaver, which well you might have done.
Or if the wrong half of daemons arrived you could have had an easier day.
Then it is really not inconceivable that daemons can mishap with every unit and table themselves and autolose first turn.
Or a few expensive mishaps and the game does turn in your favour.

But this is what you have when you play daemons. It is fun.

RxGhost wrote:
Ezekiel's a good choice if you don't want the SM version. Mastery 1, three powers from Divination, Pyromancy, Telekinesis and Telepathy. Master Crafted Force weapon and pistol, with artificer armor and psychic hood and everyone within 12" is fearless (if they didn't have it already, lol).

Except Ezekiel only gets 2 powers, not 3. Check the FAQ, he loses his 3 base powers (which are pretty underwhelming) and gains 2 of the new ones.

nolzur wrote:

RxGhost wrote:
Ezekiel's a good choice if you don't want the SM version. Mastery 1, three powers from Divination, Pyromancy, Telekinesis and Telepathy. Master Crafted Force weapon and pistol, with artificer armor and psychic hood and everyone within 12" is fearless (if they didn't have it already, lol).

Except Ezekiel only gets 2 powers, not 3. Check the FAQ, he loses his 3 base powers (which are pretty underwhelming) and gains 2 of the new ones.

Keep reading babe, page 3 of the FAQ states:

"Q: What mastery level is Ezekiel (pg39)?
A: Mastery Level 1. He knows three powers."

It's in magenta on the middle left side.

EDIT: Honestly, I don't know if there's enough 2+ armor running around that I'd not want to use the lightning claws. Also, the Sargent in the Deathwing Squad you probably have Belial attached to could simply accept the challenge in his stead. They can challenge you, but you get to pick who accepts.

Ezekiel knows three base powers, yes, but you obviously skipped over this:
Psychic Powers
A Dark Angels Librarian (including Ezekiel) may use the psychic disciplines found in the Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook, instead of those in Codex: Dark Angels. If he does so, generate two new powers from the Divination, Pyromancy, Telepathy, or Telekinesis disciplines (in any combination) before armies are deployed.


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This is also in magenta, babe, on page 2 of the faq.