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a friend of mine is working on a different way for starting a game. please offer any comments suggestions or criticisms our your own suggestions for what might work in on of the current rules places... or just an additional strategy option.

we feel that rolling a d6 for who goes first gives one player a large advantage over the other army esp in 6th where you can't reserve more than 50% sans a drop pod army because space marines are a unique flower that must have it all

so we are doing a planetary empires progressive power game where where the emperor's golden toilet is finally about to flush and take him with it. luckily for them there have been some relics identified by the adeptus mechanics which can fix the oh holy crapper (could be a plutonium flapper valve or a solid adamantite flowmaster who knows) but we didn't want the games to partially boil down to one person gets lucky goes first and immediately grabs the upper hand so he wrote these proposed starting rules instead

if we like them we might make it our flgs house rules for how first turns are decided but i figured i'd post them here with his consent to see what people thought

so without further adu...



Proposed Rules for 1st Turn Bidding

Updated 7/13/2012

Surrendering the initiative to your opponent can be a powerful tactic in the hands of a skilled commander. By allowing your opponent to attack your forces, you have additional time to prepare the battlefield to your advantage, coordinate artillery fire, motivate your troops and generally ensure that your opponent is going to have a very unpleasant time.

After terrain has been placed on the battlefield and the mission and deployment type are selected, the players bid for the opportunity to go first. They do this by simultaneously and secretly recording the number of strategy points they will give to their opponent in exchange for the first turn. The player who bid the highest goes first, while the other player gains the amount of strategy points that their opponent bid. In the event of a tie, the players roll off. There is no roll to seize the initiative.

Strategy points can be spent of the abilities below. Abilities can not be purchased multiple times. They are grouped into thematic categories, but these groupings have no effect on game rules.

Artillery

1- Sniper Fire

After both sides have deployed and any scout moved have been made, you may fire the following shooting attack at BS 3, D3 times: Range: Unlimited S: X AP: 6 Type Heavy 2D6, Sniper

1 - Artillery Bombardment

After both sides have deployed units and any scout moves have been made, you may fire the following shooting attack at BS 3, D3 times: Range: Unlimited S: 5 AP: 5: Type: Large Blast.

2 - Bombing Run

After both sides have deployed units and any scout moves have been made, you may fire the following shooting attack at BS 3 D3 times: Range: Unlimited S: 6 AP: 3: Type: Small Bast

2 - AA Fire

The first time an enemy flyer arrives from reserves during the game, resolve the following shooting attack at BS 3 on it: Range: Unlimited, S: 7, AP: 4, Type: Heavy 4, Twin-linked, Skyfire

4 - Orbital Bombardment

After both sides have deployed units and any scout moves have been made, you may fire the following shooting attack at BS 3 1 time: Range: Unlimited S: 10 AP: 2: Type: Ordanance

Engineering

1- Booby Traps

Before units deploy, secretly nominate one piece of area terrain. The first time a unit moves into this piece of terrain, it suffers 2d6 strength 4 ap - hits. Vehicles are hit on their rear armor. If this attack causes any casualties, the unit must take a pinning test. If a unit deploys into this terrain at the beginning of the game, resolve the attack at the beginning of the 1st turn. If multiple units deploy into the terrain, randomly select which unit is affected by the booby traps.

1 - Bolster Defenses

Nominate one piece of terrain; its cover save is increased by 1 for the duration of the battle.

1 - Sappers

Before units deploy, you may reduce the cover save on one piece of terrain by 1 or make that terrain dangerous in addition to its other qualities.

2- Battlefield Demolitions

Before units deploy, you may remove one piece of terrain (approx 6 inches x 6 inches) from the battlefield.

2 - Battlefield Engineering

Before units deploy, you may place one piece of area terrain (approx 6 inches x 6 inches) on the battlefield. This terrain provides a 5+ cover save.

4- Prefabricated Bunker

Before units deploy, you may place a bunker onto the battlefield. This building is armor 13 all around, and comes equipped with an Icarus Lascannon. 12 infantry may embark.

Command

1 - Adaptive Psycher

One of your psychers that has selected powers from the core rulebook gains an additional random psychic power. If this is used along with Disciplined Psycher, you roll for this additional power after choosing your other powers.

1- Command Foresight

Rather than roll for warlord traits, your warlord may choose their trait

2- Disciplined Psycher

Rather than roll for psychic powers, one of your psychers may choose their powers

2- Multifaceted Command

Your warlord gains an additional trait. This trait must come from a different column than your first trait. If this is used along with Command Foresight, you choose 1 trait, and then roll for the second one.

4- Master Strategist

You may change either the mission type or deployment type to whatever you choose.

Drill - These abilities may not be used on HQ units

1- Iron Will

Nominate one of your units; for the duration of the battle, that unit is fearless.

1- Establish Kill Zone

Nominate one of your units; the first time this unit fires, all of its weapons count as twin-linked. This bonus is lost if the unit moves before it gets to fire.

1- Bloodlust

Nominate one of your units; the first time this unit engages in close combat, it must reroll all misses for one fight subphase.

2 - Hold the Line

Nominate one of your units. For the duration of the game, when this unit overwatch fires it may use its regular ballistics skill rather than snap firing. Snap firing restrictions on blast weapons and special rules for templates still apply. This bonus is lost if the unit moves.

2 - Inspired Purpose

Nominate one of your units. For the duration of the game, this unit counts as scoring. This may not be used on vehicles, monstrous creatures, swarms or or units that have a special rule that prevents them from ever claiming objectives

4 - Reinforcements

Nominate one of your units selected from the troops section of your codex. The first time this unit is destroyed, instead place it in reserves. You may choose to have the unit deep strike or outflank if the unit normally could do so. It does not re-enter with a dedicated transport if it had one previously. Your opponent counts as having destroyed the original unit for victory point purposes. Otherwise, treat the unit exactly as you would for any other unit coming in from reserves.

Maneuver

1- Outflank

Nominate one of your units. This unit may outflank. If the unit has a dedicated transport, that transport may also outflank as long as the unit deploys with it

1 - Outmanuever

Nominate one of your opponent's units that is being held in reserve. This unit does not roll to enter from reserves next turn.

2 - Counterintelligence

After both sides have finished deploying and scout moves have been made, you may redeploy D3 of your enemy’s units, exactly as if they had scout moved, up to a maximum of 6 inches.

2 - Superior Intel

Nominate D3 of your units. They may be moved exactly as if they had the scout special rule, but only up to a maximum of 6 inches. This does not allow them to outflank.

4- Diversionary Raid

After both sides have finished deploying and any scout moves have been made, you may remove one enemy unit from the battlefield. This unit is placed in reserves. Independent characters attached to the unit and any transport the unit deployed in may stay on the battlefield or may be placed in reserve, model owner’s choice. The unit may deep strike or outflank if it normally capable of doing so. This ability may not be used if your opponent only has one unit on the table.

Electronic Warfare

1 - Locator Beacon

Place a counter anywhere on the tabletop. Friendly units deep striking within 6 inches of the beacon do not scatter. If enemy units move into base contact with the beacon, remove it from play.

1- Electromagnetic Pulse

Nominate D3 enemy vehicles. These vehicles count as immobilized for the first turn of the game.

2 - Jam Enemy Communications

Enemy forces have a -1 to all of their reserve rolls for the duration of the game

2 - Communications Array

Your forces have a +1 to all their reserve rolls for the duration of the game

4 - Sensor Blackout

Whenever enemy units arrive from deep strike, they roll an extra d6 for scatter, added to the total. If they roll a hit or are using a piece of wargear or special rule that prevents scatter, they still scatter 1d6, in the direction of the small arrow on the hit marker.

and there we have it, again comment criticisms suggestions or or tweaks would be much appreciated as we are trying to have it nailed down by Saturday 7/21/2012 for the maiden voyage but any comments or ideas after that point would also be good as the campaign will last another month at least and as stated we will be likely using this in my flgs instead of roll for first turn provided both players want to do it that way

Comments in bold, I really like this.

G00fySmiley wrote:a friend of mine is working on a different way for starting a game.

we feel that rolling a d6 for who goes first gives one player a large advantage over the other army esp in 6th where you can't reserve more than 50% sans a drop pod army because space marines are a unique flower that must have it all

so we are doing a planetary empires progressive power game where where the emperor's golden toilet is finally about to flush and take him with it. luckily for them there have been some relics identified by the adeptus mechanics which can fix the oh holy crapper (could be a plutonium flapper valve or a solid adamantite flowmaster who knows) but we didn't want the games to partially boil down to one person gets lucky goes first and immediately grabs the upper hand so he wrote these proposed starting rules instead

if we like them we might make it our flgs house rules for how first turns are decided but i figured i'd post them here with his consent to see what people thought

so without further adiu...



Proposed Rules for 1st Turn Bidding

Updated 7/13/2012

Surrendering the initiative to your opponent can be a powerful tactic in the hands of a skilled commander. By allowing your opponent to attack your forces, you have additional time to prepare the battlefield to your advantage, coordinate artillery fire, motivate your troops and generally ensure that your opponent is going to have a very unpleasant time.

After terrain has been placed on the battlefield and the mission and deployment type are selected, the players bid for the opportunity to go first. They do this by simultaneously and secretly recording the number of strategy points they will give to their opponent in exchange for the first turn. The player who bid the highest goes first, while the other player gains the amount of strategy points that their opponent bid. In the event of a tie, the players roll off. There is no roll to seize the initiative.

Strategy points can be spent of the abilities below. Abilities can not be purchased multiple times. They are grouped into thematic categories, but these groupings have no effect on game rules.

Artillery

1- Sniper Fire

After both sides have deployed and any scout moved have been made, you may fire the following shooting attack at BS 3, D3 times: Range: Unlimited S: X AP: 6 Type Heavy 2D6, Sniper

Could be worded better; it should be consistent instead of very variable - you have the chance for anything in between no hits, or 36 rending wounds (unlikely but possible). I'd go with a bit above averaging it; "After both sides have deployed, and scout moves and infiltration has been finished, choose a unit your opponent controls: it suffers 10 automatic S:X AP:6 Type:Sniper hits.

1 - Artillery Bombardment

After both sides have deployed units and any scout moves have been made, you may fire the following shooting attack at BS 3, D3 times: Range: Unlimited S: 5 AP: 5: Type: Large Blast.

Same thing here: it's a strategic asset, let it be much less random; simply grant 2 large blasts at BS3. If you wanted this to be particularly fluffy, it could be 2 sets of S:4 AP:6 Type: Heavy 3 Blast Barrage, similar to Heavy Weapons Teams with Mortars.

2 - Bombing Run

After both sides have deployed units and any scout moves have been made, you may fire the following shooting attack at BS 3 D3 times: Range: Unlimited S: 6 AP: 3: Type: Small Bast

Same as above; beginning to see a pattern ;P

2 - AA Fire

The first time an enemy flyer arrives from reserves during the game, resolve the following shooting attack at BS 3 on it: Range: Unlimited, S: 7, AP: 4, Type: Heavy 4, Twin-linked, Skyfire

Perfect.

4 - Orbital Bombardment

After both sides have deployed units and any scout moves have been made, you may fire the following shooting attack at BS 3 1 time: Range: Unlimited S: 10 AP: 2: Type: Ordanance

Ordnance.... blast? right now it's just a single attack at 4+ to hit for 4 points... I'd rather buy the first three options than this 0_o My suggestion: Ordnance Barrage, Large Blast.

Engineering

1- Booby Traps

Before units deploy, secretly nominate one piece of area terrain. The first time a unit moves into this piece of terrain, it suffers 2d6 strength 4 ap - hits. Vehicles are hit on their rear armor. If this attack causes any casualties, the unit must take a pinning test. If a unit deploys into this terrain at the beginning of the game, resolve the attack at the beginning of the 1st turn. If multiple units deploy into the terrain, randomly select which unit is affected by the booby traps.

I'd rather resolve this similarly to a boobytrapped objective; ". The first time a unit moves into this piece of terrain, place the Large blast marker somewhere completely within the terrain. Mark this spot with a coin or other appropriate token. Units hit by the blast suffer an S4 AP- hit with the Pinning special rule for each model under or partially under the blast. At the beginning of each game turn thereafter, resolve another blast.

1 - Bolster Defenses

Nominate one piece of terrain; its cover save is increased by 1 for the duration of the battle.

Safe enough.

1 - Sappers

Before units deploy, you may reduce the cover save on one piece of terrain by 1 or make that terrain dangerous in addition to its other qualities.

Safe enough.

2- Battlefield Demolitions

Before units deploy, you may remove one piece of terrain (approx 6 inches x 6 inches) from the battlefield.

2 - Battlefield Engineering

Before units deploy, you may place one piece of area terrain (approx 6 inches x 6 inches) on the battlefield. This terrain provides a 5+ cover save.

These are fine

4- Prefabricated Bunker

Before units deploy, you may place a bunker onto the battlefield. This building is armor 13 all around, and comes equipped with an Icarus Lascannon. 12 infantry may embark.

Scary D:

Command

1 - Adaptive Psycher

One of your psychers that has selected powers from the core rulebook gains an additional random psychic power. If this is used along with Disciplined Psycher, you roll for this additional power after choosing your other powers.

1- Command Foresight

Rather than roll for warlord traits, your warlord may choose their trait

2- Disciplined Psycher

Rather than roll for psychic powers, one of your psychers may choose their powers

2- Multifaceted Command

Your warlord gains an additional trait. This trait must come from a different column than your first trait. If this is used along with Command Foresight, you choose 1 trait, and then roll for the second one.

4- Master Strategist

You may change either the mission type or deployment type to whatever you choose.

These are great!

Drill - These abilities may not be used on HQ units

1- Iron Will

Nominate one of your units; for the duration of the battle, that unit is fearless.

1- Establish Kill Zone

Nominate one of your units; the first time this unit fires, all of its weapons count as twin-linked. This bonus is lost if the unit moves before it gets to fire.

Perhaps it gains twinlinked overwatch for the game duration as well?

1- Bloodlust

Nominate one of your units; the first time this unit engages in close combat, it must reroll all misses for one fight subphase.

2 - Hold the Line

Nominate one of your units. For the duration of the game, when this unit overwatch fires it may use its regular ballistics skill rather than snap firing. Snap firing restrictions on blast weapons and special rules for templates still apply. This bonus is lost if the unit moves.

Scary 0_0

2 - Inspired Purpose

Nominate one of your units. For the duration of the game, this unit counts as scoring. This may not be used on vehicles, monstrous creatures, swarms or or units that have a special rule that prevents them from ever claiming objectives

4 - Reinforcements

Nominate one of your units selected from the troops section of your codex. The first time this unit is destroyed, instead place it in reserves. You may choose to have the unit deep strike or outflank if the unit normally could do so. It does not re-enter with a dedicated transport if it had one previously. Your opponent counts as having destroyed the original unit for victory point purposes. Otherwise, treat the unit exactly as you would for any other unit coming in from reserves.

Very powerful, especially with the above rule.

Maneuver

1- Outflank

Nominate one of your units. This unit may outflank. If the unit has a dedicated transport, that transport may also outflank as long as the unit deploys with it

1 - Outmanuever

Nominate one of your opponent's units that is being held in reserve. This unit does not roll to enter from reserves next turn.

2 - Counterintelligence

After both sides have finished deploying and scout moves have been made, you may redeploy D3 of your enemy’s units, exactly as if they had scout moved, up to a maximum of 6 inches.

2 - Superior Intel

Nominate D3 of your units. They may be moved exactly as if they had the scout special rule, but only up to a maximum of 6 inches. This does not allow them to outflank.

4- Diversionary Raid

After both sides have finished deploying and any scout moves have been made, you may remove one enemy unit from the battlefield. This unit is placed in reserves. Independent characters attached to the unit and any transport the unit deployed in may stay on the battlefield or may be placed in reserve, model owner’s choice. The unit may deep strike or outflank if it normally capable of doing so. This ability may not be used if your opponent only has one unit on the table.

All of these seem powerful, especially when used together... I'd almost bump a few up to 2's and 3's.

Electronic Warfare

1 - Locator Beacon

Place a counter anywhere on the tabletop. Friendly units deep striking within 6 inches of the beacon do not scatter. If enemy units move into base contact with the beacon, remove it from play.

1- Electromagnetic Pulse

Nominate D3 enemy vehicles. These vehicles count as immobilized for the first turn of the game.

2 - Jam Enemy Communications

Enemy forces have a -1 to all of their reserve rolls for the duration of the game

2 - Communications Array

Your forces have a +1 to all their reserve rolls for the duration of the game

4 - Sensor Blackout

Whenever enemy units arrive from deep strike, they roll an extra d6 for scatter, added to the total. If they roll a hit or are using a piece of wargear or special rule that prevents scatter, they still scatter 1d6, in the direction of the small arrow on the hit marker.

[b]Might want to state if the reserves alterations stack with any others (warlord traits or wargear/special rules).

These are great!

The rules are fine, however you should still allow a seize roll, not to go first, however if one seizes then give them some other advantage. (maybe double the amount of points or something along those lines)

Certain models gain advantage to seizing this should be reflected.

This looks awesome, much kudos to you.

Just one thing though, there may be too much awesomeness to choose from. . . .

thanks for the feedback so far . the sieze initiative roll is a good point maybe add a point if succesful and dd a point if you have a character tha thelps sieze initiative.

redkommando i think the point of some of the more powerful ones is if somebody really want to gain all the advantages of going first there is an associated cost.. take me vs the author he mostly plays space wolves lets say he brings 3 units of his longfangs being abel to split fire 12 missiles and he really wants that chance to pop one or two of my battlewagons turn one he can bid high say 6 pointsbut then i have alot of advantages me on the other hand i figure av14 up front with a kff i'm pretty safe so i bid low at 2 points. I then would choose up to 6 points of strategy from the chart appropriate to my army .

now i just have to hope his missiles don't do thier job but at least if they do i am somewhat in a better position about it

and chris i liked alot of your tweeks i'll pass them on to him

Smiley I love it. But I think Chrisrawr also makes good suggestions.

I don't quite understand why you would still include a seize the initiative roll though.

ahh yea i didn't mean a roll to sieze initiative completely i am not great at writing. i meant a roll would still be made for an additional point or in the case where a few HQ's provide a bonus to initiative roll or seizing initiative give that player a bonus one point of strategy or they may bid and if they win the bid the winning player gets one fewer points to the bid

ie say you have a model that may reroll seize initiative or add 1 to your roll off for who geos first before bids revealed declare a plus 1 to your bid ie you bid 3 strategy but it counts as 4. or you choose to have 1 strategy point added to your total win or lose the bid

so if you tie the bid at 3 and you chose option 1 yours counts as 4 and you win but your opponent only gets 3 points

or in option 2 you bid and win the bid to go first with a 4 but choose to take one srtategy point you get one of the one point options yourself

I am also debating talking to the author about instead of a hidden bid having a auction type scenario where it starts at one and points go up from there till one player will nto outbid the other. you could get up to say 6 points after your opponent bids 5 but realize if your opponent doens't bid 7 he's going to have some big buffs for the concession of first turn.

Ah, I see. That makes sense about the initiative now. Thanks.