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Just finished reading the Index Astartes for the Emperor's Children and had a question:

would the High Lords (In their infinite wisdom) use the gene-seed of the Emperor's Children? Considering its more pure than the Ultramarines gene-seed:

The Emperor's Children gene-seed was perhaps the most pure and stable of all the Legions.Only the finest physical specimens were chosen for implantation, so that the mutatio rate of the gene-seed was practically zero. Every enhancement produced by the gene-seed functioned at peak efficiency, allowing the Space Marines to achive their full potential in battle. No other Space Marine Legion achived such a goal,

redkommando wrote:Just finished reading the Index Astartes for the Emperor's Children and had a question:

would the High Lords (In their infinite wisdom) use the gene-seed of the Emperor's Children? Considering its more pure than the Ultramarines gene-seed:

The Emperor's Children gene-seed was perhaps the most pure and stable of all the Legions.Only the finest physical specimens were chosen for implantation, so that the mutation rate of the gene-seed was practically zero. Every enhancement produced by the gene-seed functioned at peak efficiency, allowing the Space Marines to achieve their full potential in battle. No other Space Marine Legion achieved such a goal,

No chance, not now at least.

From another Index Astartes article on the Codex Astartes you have this.

The Horus Heresy had revealed weaknesses in the geneseed of several Space Marine Legions which had been exaggerated by the accelerated zygote harvesting techniques needed to keep the huge Space Marine Legions up to strength. The powers of Chaos exploited this growing physical and mental corruption to turn Horus’s troops against the Emperor.

For this reason, they wouldn't risk using Traitor Geneseed. In my opinion I should add.

There are some who believe that Traitor geneseed has been used in the Cursed Founding, there is no proof in this though. Fabius Bile had some connection to this so it could be manipulation at his hands that cause some of the Cursed Founding Chapters to share certain traits with the Traitor Legions.

But since the High Lords would have samples of the Gene-seed when it was near perfect, before the legion boomed in size ( it was orginally only 200 Marines strong) and before the seed was diluted from the mass production of the zygotes, could they use it, if the situation was dire enough? or at all?

redkommando wrote:But since the High Lords would have samples of the Gene-seed when it was near perfect, before the legion boomed in size ( it was orginally only 200 Marines strong) and before the seed was diluted from the mass production of the zygotes, could they use it, if the situation was dire enough? or at all?

The flaw was always there, it just became more apparent due to the acceleration process.

They could use it, but would they want to risk creating a chapter that is quite likely to go rogue?

Hmmm true I suppose, thanks for the advice and assistance

redkommando wrote:Hmmm true I suppose, thanks for the advice and assistance

You're welcome.

If you don't mind me asking, what was the reasoning behind your question?

Don't be put off by some name on the screen Kommando if you were intending to do something like say, have a loyalist Emperors Children chapter in current day 40k. It's only my interpretation and there are others out there who will say 'Hey, you're wrong Mr Rice, so shut your pie - hole'.

Pilau Rice wrote:

redkommando wrote:Hmmm true I suppose, thanks for the advice and assistance

You're welcome.

If you don't mind me asking, what was the reasoning behind your question?

Don't be put off by some name on the screen Kommando if you were intending to do something like say, have a loyalist Emperors Children chapter in current day 40k. It's only my interpretation and there are others out there who will say 'Hey, you're wrong Mr Rice, so shut your pie - hole'.

Agreed, while it is unlikely to occur, the oppurtunity is there and therefore entirely plausible should you decide to use it as your own fluff for your army.

Pilau Rice wrote:

redkommando wrote:Hmmm true I suppose, thanks for the advice and assistance

You're welcome.

If you don't mind me asking, what was the reasoning behind your question?

Don't be put off by some name on the screen Kommando if you were intending to do something like say, have a loyalist Emperors Children chapter in current day 40k. It's only my interpretation and there are others out there who will say 'Hey, you're wrong Mr Rice, so shut your pie - hole'.

Well the thought formed itself after I posted, and its currently fermenting, I do like the idea but the reasoning behind the question was simple: Why not use a possiblly perfect and pure Gene-Seed IF the need surfaced? There must be Gene-Seed samples of all the Legions before they had their Primarchs and I belive thats the reason they turned, I mean would the Emperor's Children been so Prideful if it wasn't for Fulgrim? Would the World Eaters be crazey killing machines without Angron? ( no they wouldn't) and Would the Iron Hands be obsessed with slicing themselves up without Ferrus Manus?


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Revenent Reiko wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

redkommando wrote:Hmmm true I suppose, thanks for the advice and assistance

You're welcome.

If you don't mind me asking, what was the reasoning behind your question?

Don't be put off by some name on the screen Kommando if you were intending to do something like say, have a loyalist Emperors Children chapter in current day 40k. It's only my interpretation and there are others out there who will say 'Hey, you're wrong Mr Rice, so shut your pie - hole'.

Agreed, while it is unlikely to occur, the oppurtunity is there and therefore entirely plausible should you decide to use it as your own fluff for your army.

Well in M37 the High Lords had to create something like 50 chapters to replace the one that had been destroyed/lost in the warp/turned renegade in M36, so that could be a situation. . .

There are various hints and rumors in published sources that the High Lords might have used traitor geneseed in subsequent foundings.

Manchu wrote:There are various hints and rumors in published sources that the High Lords might have used traitor geneseed in subsequent foundings.

Sharing is caring (except when its desises). . .
apart from the 21st founding and the Blood Ravens "thing"(im not a beliver)

Revenent Reiko wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

redkommando wrote:Hmmm true I suppose, thanks for the advice and assistance

You're welcome.

If you don't mind me asking, what was the reasoning behind your question?

Don't be put off by some name on the screen Kommando if you were intending to do something like say, have a loyalist Emperors Children chapter in current day 40k. It's only my interpretation and there are others out there who will say 'Hey, you're wrong Mr Rice, so shut your pie - hole'.

Agreed, while it is unlikely to occur, the oppurtunity is there and therefore entirely plausible should you decide to use it as your own fluff for your army.

Hey, don't tell me to shut my pie hole!

redkommando wrote:

Well the thought formed itself after I posted, and its currently fermenting, I do like the idea but the reasoning behind the question was simple: Why not use a possiblly perfect and pure Gene-Seed IF the need surfaced? There must be Gene-Seed samples of all the Legions before they had their Primarchs and I belive thats the reason they turned, I mean would the Emperor's Children been so Prideful if it wasn't for Fulgrim? Would the World Eaters be crazey killing machines without Angron? ( no they wouldn't) and Would the Iron Hands be obsessed with slicing themselves up without Ferrus Manus?

This is a tricky one for sure. Certain aspects were already part of the psyche of the Astartes Legion that were created from their respective Primarch. But certainly, the Primarch and their own individual up bringing on their respective worlds definitely moulded the Legions into something they weren't prior to the recover of their Primarch. The Emperors Children strived to be the best because they were such a small Legion, Fulgrim enforced this. The War Hounds were bezerkers, but Angron made them more extreme and introduced the buthers nails etc etc.

redkommando wrote:Well in M37 the High Lords had to create something like 50 chapters to replace the one that had been destroyed/lost in the warp/turned renegade in M36, so that could be a situation. . .

Could be, but they have the Ultramarines Geneseed for this

Manchu wrote:There are various hints and rumors in published sources that the High Lords might have used traitor geneseed in subsequent foundings.

See Red, like I said, others, like our man Manchu, don't agree with me

redkommando wrote:

Sharing is caring (except when its desises). . .
apart from the 21st founding and the Blood Ravens "thing"(im not a beliver)

21st and the 13th are the likely ones where Traitor Geneseed has been used, if it has.

Sons of Anteus could be Death Guard

Minotaurs could be World Eaters

edit: Spellinz

redkommando wrote:Well in M37 the High Lords had to create something like 50 chapters to replace the one that had been destroyed/lost in the warp/turned renegade in M36, so that could be a situation. . .

I cant find any record of that....doesnt mean it didnt happen ,i just cant find anything on it. I saw 'The Sentinel Founding' on 40k Wiki, where there are 4 Chapters named but that was it...

Anyway, as Manchu pointed out, there are rumours of this having happened already (most notably with the Cursed Founding, but this has also already been covered), so it could, by all means, happen again...


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Pilau Rice wrote:Hey, don't tell me to shut my pie hole!

Hehe thought you might catch that

redkommando wrote:apart from the 21st founding and the Blood Ravens "thing"(im not a beliver)

The Minotaurs are plausibly War Hound/World Eater successors.

So it is plausable that a modern chapter could be the decendent of a Traitor Legion?
It just sounds so. . . wrong(that wasn't the word I was looking for, but it will have to do)

How could I even design an Chapter to be from the Emperor's Children?(I'm liking this idea now)


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It just feels like people would be like "No, sorry thats not possible"

Absolutely plausible. While unlikely, and it may go against some players personal opinion on the fluff, it is perfectly plausible. Along with this, of course, it is entirely possible that it has happened already.

To base your Chapter off the EC's Geneseed? Well you could basically thieve the background on the Legion from before Fulgrim turned up:
A Small, Elite force striving for perfection in all things (including venerating the Emperor of coure, you dont want them to start being accused of heresy ). Including lots of Artificer Armour as each marine improves upon their gear in both use and beauty (ala Blood Angels/Salamanders)...That sort of thing...

EDIT: Terrible spelling/Grammar

Manchu wrote:

redkommando wrote:apart from the 21st founding and the Blood Ravens "thing"(im not a beliver)

The Minotaurs are plausibly War Hound/World Eater successors.

Thats an interesting tidbit, and as far as using Traitor Geneseed, I say go for it, I mean for goodness sake, the Grey Knight, the most devout chapter of the Adeptus Astartes, charged with directly combating the Demons of the Warp, was founded by Loyalist members of the traitor legions. So I don't have any doubt the Lords of Terra would use every resource available to them after the Heresy in order to combat the forces of Chaos, including stockpiles of 'Traitor' geneseed.

The gene-seed is pure or not, it was a problem for the T-sons but the EC seem to be down in size because of an accident and their Pre-heresy geneseed may have been very strictly controlled to allow them to make the most out of the given amount of geneseed.
In the heresy it was the person who turned, not the geneseed. A lot of the marines of Terran descent didn't turn traitor and the hole in the shield against the influence of chaos was the questionable source of recruts. There is more screening of candidates now and some of the HH-characters may not have made it to marine if they used the same process back then.

So using the geneseed of traitor legiones isn't an easy path like creating UM successor N°987654 , but not impossible.
There was so much data lost in the wars of 10 millenia, the loss of a record where the geneseed from your chapter is from may happen. But, there is a tithe to send to Mars and the AdeptusBiologis are surely able to identify the source ( Legion ). So a founding where the Ad/Bio themselves messed with the geneseed would be the best route IMO as they may cover their tracks and not report where the geneseed of chapter X is from.

I'm actually willing to bet that Red Scorpions are actually EC successors based on their background.

Manchu wrote:

redkommando wrote:apart from the 21st founding and the Blood Ravens "thing"(im not a beliver)

The Minotaurs are plausibly War Hound/World Eater successors.

The Minotaurs are 21st founding.

King Pariah wrote:I'm actually willing to bet that Red Scorpions are actually EC successors based on their background.

I know of the Red Scorpions, but nothing about them, bumped up on the do to list.

Since there are foundings in which it is heavily implied that Traitor geneseed was used it is possable for there to be Loyalist marines with Traitor geneseed(heck, some Chapters may have been started by loyalists from the Traitor legions at the time of the Heresy)

Isn't there huge speculation that a few of the remaining traitor legions marine who stayed loyal founded the GK? Honestly this is one of those areas that you can really have fun and say make your own chapter.

(my own view/ how I play the game)
I think they use the traitors gene seed sparingly and never at all as exclusive use to start a chapter. By including mixed the geneseeds used in various chapters the High lords ensure that each chapter stays diverse in terms of ablity and genetics.

King Pariah wrote:I'm actually willing to bet that Red Scorpions are actually EC successors based on their background.

That's not bad, as far s speculation goes.

protonhunter wrote:Isn't there huge speculation that a few of the remaining traitor legions marine who stayed loyal founded the GK?.

That's not speculation. It's in the HH novels and the GK codex.

redkommando wrote:But since the High Lords would have samples of the Gene-seed when it was near perfect, before the legion boomed in size ( it was orginally only 200 Marines strong) and before the seed was diluted from the mass production of the zygotes, could they use it, if the situation was dire enough? or at all?

But for a situation to be that dire the IoM probably would no longer exist, when genevaults are full to the brim with Ultamarine and their successors geneseed why bother doing something potentionally idiotic when you have an easy option.

The High Lords already worry about the space marine chapters, why would they risk it?

Glorioski wrote:

protonhunter wrote:Isn't there huge speculation that a few of the remaining traitor legions marine who stayed loyal founded the GK?.

That's not speculation. It's in the HH novels and the GK codex.

Yes, a few made up the founding members. But their geneseed was not used.

GK geneseed bears no relation to other Space Marines. Its directly from the Emperor, in a sense he is their Primarch.

I didn't say their geneseed was used.