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Hey guys,

So there's been some confusion regarding Hammer of Wrath in my FLGS. Does Hammer of Wrath factor in special abilities, powers, modifiers, etc.? Be it psychic powers like Hammerhand, or weapon-effects such as NFW/poisoned, or a Dreadknight's x2 strength/re-roll to hit/wound (since a Dreadknight with a teleporter becomes a Jump Monstrous Creature)?

Nooooo not again!!!

That is STRANGE. I did a forum search and that didn't appear. Alright, I'll go look at that then. Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, one thing that doesn't seem to have been mentioned was NFW.

NFW's rules allow you to activate the NFW after the first unsaved wound. Assuming that the HoW attack isn't treated as a seperate "weapon", then does this mean that NFWs can activate?

HoW clearly states no weapon bonuses apply.

Enigwolf wrote:That is STRANGE. I did a forum search and that didn't appear. Alright, I'll go look at that then. Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, one thing that doesn't seem to have been mentioned was NFW.

NFW's rules allow you to activate the NFW after the first unsaved wound. Assuming that the HoW attack isn't treated as a seperate "weapon", then does this mean that NFWs can activate?

No. One clear take away was no weapon abilities applied. Then it degraded into a stand off about whether a model's special ability applied or not (such as wraith's and rending). Wait for the FAQ to see if a model special rule applies. Weapons however do not applied their special abilities.

Also remember that HoW happen outside of combat. They happen when the models touch base to base.

MJThurston wrote:Also remember that HoW happen outside of combat. They happen when the models touch base to base.

No they happen at I10, so a bunch of banshees will hit at the same time.

Read the rule. HoW happens when bases touch and any model with HoW that does not touch an enemy model does not get this hit.

Auto hit when touched. RESOLVED at sub-phase init 10. So you are hit before combat starts but you roll to wound at init 10.

This is pretty clear cut and in black and white.

That is so GW.

MJThurston wrote:Also remember that HoW happen outside of combat. They happen when the models touch base to base.

Only when you make up rules. They happen in the Fight Sub phase, at I10

Please dont repeat made up rules as fact.

Nope. Not a made up fact.

HoW must touch models to get an automatic hit. This hit is at Str (User) and AP-. This attack is resolved at Combat sub-phase init 10.

So this is saying that the hit happened outside of CC and the damage from this hit is resolved at fight sub-phase initiative 10.

Pretty clear.

Also, it seems tyranid biomorphs work fine with these (bone sword shrikes for everyone!)

MJThurston wrote:Nope. Not a made up fact.

HoW must touch models to get an automatic hit. This hit is at Str (User) and AP-. This attack is resolved at Combat sub-phase init 10.

So this is saying that the hit happened outside of CC and the damage from this hit is resolved at fight sub-phase initiative 10.

Pretty clear.

Sigh. Fight sub phase, not Combat sub phase. Init steps arent subphases, please refer to your rulebook to get at least that part right.

You have no rules, absolutely none, that back up your position. Your posiotion is simply made up houserules that have no place being presented as actual fact.

You were proven wrong at every step in the other thread, please try to learn from that and move on, as it will make debate with you possible.

Niiai wrote:Also, it seems tyranid biomorphs work fine with these (bone sword shrikes for everyone!)

This actually isn't definitive since boneswords are technically weapons which can't technically be used for how. Wraiths however have an innate ability that allows they to have rending for all attacks.

See the difference? Its subtle but still different. Of course that's not saying this is actually true ... just very much undefined at this point in time.

No, Boneswords arn't CCWs. No tyranid Biomorph is. They are a non-descript piece of wargear that gives a certain attribute to the models melee attacks.

MJThurston wrote:Nope. Not a made up fact.

HoW must touch models to get an automatic hit. This hit is at Str (User) and AP-. This attack is resolved at Combat sub-phase init 10.

So this is saying that the hit happened outside of CC and the damage from this hit is resolved at fight sub-phase initiative 10.

Pretty clear.

Pretty clear if you cite the pages for this with direct quotes. I guarantee you cannot do that. Stop bringing this tired argument in when there is no need.

Answer:
Weapon abilities do not apply (i.e. NFW)
Model based abilities is up for debate

Nids have CCW. It's in their Codex listed in the CCW section. Can't dodge that.

After re-reading the Sub-Phases I'm going to have to take a half step back.

Charge Sub-Phase says that movement happens here and that is where the auto hit happens. Just the result of the hit is done at Fight Sub-Phase at init 10.

Close Combat is defined as two opposing units contacting each other base to base.

The rule book says the Codex's trump BRB. I'm not sure how to defend the Wraith issue besides nothing written that says the Str (user) AP- can be changed to AP2 per the rending rules. I can see a good argument here now.

As for the Nids...HoW is not a CCW attack and any benefit from one (CCW) does not confer over to HoW. All CCW are on page 83 of the Nid Codex. You can not argue your way out of these listings because they are CLEARLY in the CCW section.

It's like déjà vu...