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Just need some advice. I like running a little Jack heavy, but I'd like Dakka's advice on how to run them, or different playstyles I can run them with,

Well it depends entirely on your warcasters really.

Who did you have in mind?

Ret has some trouble running jack-heavy -or even balanced- in my experiences. They are a very infantry-oriented faction. You might be able to fill more points with jacks after Hyperion comes out and take it and a heavy easily enough. Vyros is their best jack caster and he falls a bit short in some respects. You may get some use out of Rahn just because of his focus muscle.

None of the merc. casters have tools to run multiple melee jacks well but there are plentiful jack marshals with great drives and cheap jacks to go with them. You can fit five jacks in a list fairly easily with a pair of jack marshals. Broadsides Bart is a good jack caster held back only by his average focus stat. He works better with ranged jacks or in attrition lists rather than charging forward. He has some good spells to spend his focus on but that leaves very little to allocate.

I've considered Rahn as my Ret caster. How many jacks should I be bringing with him? (25pts)


Not even the Rhulic ones? Cause I'm looking at Macbaine and either Madhammer or Ossrum.

As of now there are no Merc Warcasters that work with Ret. In fact Ret has one of, if not the lowest amount of Mercs that will work for them. Overall I don't think that any Merc with Jack Marshall can be fielded with them.
On the other hand Ret does have a lot of Jack Marshalls within their faction list. I would suggest taking a look at them if you want more Jacks on the table.

My question is, were you thinking about running Ret or Mercs? Because if you want to do a straight mercenary list, I've got experience with everything but the pirates

Dais wrote:None of the merc. casters have tools to run multiple melee jacks

pMagnus has free upkeeps on his battlegroup. 6 FOC with 2-3 'jacks per turn is nothing to sneeze at.

No, I'm running them as two separate armies. Mercs as one army, Ret as the other.

Well if you're looking for a retribution jack that is well rounded with any warcaster, the manticore is your best bet.

Re-edit here:

Also, if you're running with Rhan, be sure to get Discordia (blister upgrade and shyeel heavy myrmidon box set). It's the rets only spray gun (and one of the strongest in the game) and CAN be be added to his theme list and be bonded to him.

Rahn wants two Phoenixes. He needs the arc nodes.

Demdiddydizzy wrote:I've considered Rahn as my Ret caster. How many jacks should I be bringing with him? (25pts)


Not even the Rhulic ones? Cause I'm looking at Macbaine and either Madhammer or Ossrum.

Firstly, I ran Rhan with 2 Heavies, its really to much at 25 pts. At 35 points if you run the tier list, you can get arcanists who can give your jacks focus, that way you elevate the problems. Rhan wants Battlemages, likely 2-3 units and some Magistrar solo's. A Phoenix is not a bad idea, if your not going with a Phoenix you should consider a Manticore & Chimera combo. Chimera's are fast an have great abilities.

If you want to think about going "jack" heavy you can play Gorten, but take a slightly different angle. Its very simply to run the following:
Gorten
+Driller
+Gun Bunny ~ both are great
+Gun Bunny ~ both are great
- Bokur (client Gorten)

Brun
+Lug
-Bokur (client Brun)

Thor

Its 22 / 25 pts. Gorten's battlegroup is very focus friendly, you only need 1 focus to boost attack / damage rolls on the gun bunnies. You cast strength of granite on the Driller. Then you only need the focus to charge, however more likely you don't need to charge as you feat to cause the DEF debuff, then tune the damage rolls, give him 1 focus.. he will wreck most heavy jacks with 2 PS 21 then 3db damage and 1 PS 20 3d6 damage. Bokurs are basically light jacks. They can slam when you need it. With the client bonuses they hit like a truck vs infantry and they are horrible to get out of the way as they are a medium base. Brun / Lug gives you a lesser warcaster and warbeast who has a chain attack. Its takes some of the trouble off Gorten. You are also "Searforge" theme'd. So you get +4 deployment. So your up there pretty far threatening early. 3 pts left: consider Herne / Jonne for some range to kill light armed infantry

So, an arc node, a Manticore and a Chimera would be somewhere to start?


What about an Avalancher? I heard it's a great 'jack, and I really would like one in my army.

A Chimera is an arc node.

Ah. So, Discordia, Manticore, and a Chimera as my jack's.

Manticore and Discordia are definitely nice, but honestly if you want to use Rahn, the Phoenix should be your first choice. At 35 points I run the Phoenix and Discordia. At 25 or less, Phoenix and a Griffon.

Cryonicleech wrote:

Dais wrote:None of the merc. casters have tools to run multiple melee jacks

pMagnus has free upkeeps on his battlegroup. 6 FOC with 2-3 'jacks per turn is nothing to sneeze at.

I run him with 4 'jacks and have very little in the way of problems, his Iron Aggression spell and Tier list benefit of starting with upkeeps already in play really does help.

Rhan can get away with 1 Jack at 25 pts if you max out Battlemages & solo's and run the Phoenix. As an Arc node, the Phoenix can last longer then the Chimera and also be threatening in combat with some help from Arcanists +2 ability and option for focus.

Rhan is about board controls, and maximising your feat turn against the correct targets. Its an first strike list. Dyscordia should be considered, but you still need a Arc Node as Rhan is squishy. If you go Discordia you take a light jack as a Arc node, as 2 Heavies for him is somewhat to much. The Chimera has full range of power attacks. His apparition ability can let him replace himself behind a enemy heavy jack, and lock it up.

With Merc's you have to really decide on a caster first and then build around them. Merc's is all about internal buffs / unit abilities to really strengthen your force. They are a very flexible and diverse army, but there is a massive difference between a Searforge / Highborn Durgen or Ossum list vs a Macbaine list. The Avalancer is a good jack, however it can only be taken with a Rhulic caster or Jack Marshall. So Macbaine himself cannot have one, but if Macbaine is your primary caster, you could take Thor as a Jack Marshall to get a Avalanche into the list

Ah. I'll definitely include an arc node with Rahn then.


If I do go with Macbaine, Thor is my way of getting an Avalancher into my list. But if I go with a Rhulic caster, is the Avalancher good with any of them in particular?

You don't worry about losing Thor? It's a tiny model to
hang an expensive avalancher on.

If your leaning on using Macbaine you have a 2nd thing to consider: what role will the combo of Thor + Avalancher fill? That's 11 points out of a list. Granted Thor can jack marshall the Avalancher and also Tune its damage rolls so everything under the blast is boosted.

But if your looking for a Heavy jack with a long range, and great abilities, you might be better off take a Mule which will run you 8 points from memory? Mules have a longer range if they sacrifice movement, have a critical affect of models under the 5 inch template are thrown.. and he also has reach for when you need to mix it up. Lastly it has arc'ing fire which the Avalancher does not. I believe the PS of the attack is comparable.

I've run Thor countless times in Searforge. With careful placement he often never dies or is even threatened. I'm not saying I don't lose, but people usually prioritze caster over Thor if both are in the same area which often they are with Mercs

True... It is an expensive combo. I have considered a Mule too, as those things seem too awesome to not include in my Merc army. Besides either a Nomad or a Mangler. So, if I do go with Macbaine, I will most likely choose something like the Mule and a Nomad. Those seem to be two awesome Jacks for Mercs.

If I wanted to run an Avalancher (Because I freaking love that heavy jack) Would Madhammer be a good caster to run him with perhaps? I've considered Madhammer before.