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As far as I can make out if your army consists of characters that are not part of a unit you are not prone to challenges.

For instance. My army has 2 Tyrants and a Tervigon which are not attached to units.
My friends Necrons HQ units with MSS are a little scary but as far as I can see with no Characters attached to units if he challenges me I do not see any adverse effects if I do not accept a given challenge to my Tyrants/HQ.

Please corrent me if I'm wrong.

Thanks.

No need for us to prove you wrong when the "Heroic Stand" rule on pg. 64 of the rulebook does all the work.

Page 64, Right Column, Heroic Stand Heading (3RD Graph).

This has your answers.

Awesome, that answers that then.
So I have to accept challenges.

But for a challenge to be issued I must be in combat with the challenger.

So really its just a case of staying out of the way. easier said then done.

Thanks for the answers.

As long as there's a character in the unit you're fighting he can challenge, with that said if you had another character handy to take the challenge the tyrant will be free to eat the unit. Broodlords are the only unit champs we have so that's really the only option.

HoverBoy wrote:As long as there's a character in the unit you're fighting he can challenge, with that said if you had another character handy to take the challenge the tyrant will be free to eat the unit. Broodlords are the only unit champs we have so that's really the only option.

Not quite, there has to be a character, and he has to be close enough to the front to be engaged in the fight; in order to issue or accept challenges

coredump wrote:

HoverBoy wrote:As long as there's a character in the unit you're fighting he can challenge, with that said if you had another character handy to take the challenge the tyrant will be free to eat the unit. Broodlords are the only unit champs we have so that's really the only option.

Not quite, there has to be a character, and he has to be close enough to the front to be engaged in the fight; in order to issue or accept challenges

Actually no , the character just has to be in the unit . If the challenge is accepted you move the models together and if not possible assume them to be together. pg 64 under Fighting a challenge tells you how to get them there.

I think they're pointing out that only characters who are engaged at the start of the assault phase can *accept* a challenge. If a character can not accept a challenge, they do not suffer any of the penalties, and you fight as if no challenge was accepted.

In regards to the OP, a unit consisting only of characters MUST accept challenges if possible. A single model unit, one of your MC's in this case, qualify in this regard.

Thanks for the posts guys.

I'm just trying to think of ways to avoid challenges. Pretty hard when your facing a necron lord in a barge as pretty much no where is safe unless you gun down his barge first.

So a challenge can only be issued if your in combat with the issuer or if you are within 2".

So I would use Gargoyles as a screen for my Flyrants (They are both twinlinked devourers so not the best in combat) for increased cover saves but also as a bubble wrap protection to ensure I don't get bullied into a challenge.

This will work right while my Gargoyles are alive as long as placement is good?

Also, my screen of Gargoyles would give me a 5+ cover save for the Flyrants when out in the open.

Yes, as long as placement is good you're good to go. remember in order to charge a barge can only move 12" in the movement phase, so if you stay about 8" away he cannot get over the back to charge.

Why would you avoid challenges? It's a fighting game.

MJThurston wrote:Why would you avoid challenges? It's a fighting game.

Only in certain situations when the competing list contains characters which are geared up to eat my characters.
For instance, i'd like to stay out of the way of Necrons with MSS. there's multiple other scary charatcer and combo's that would bury my Flyrants.
Plus the way I'm usig my Flyrants would be best utilised out of CC.

MJThurston wrote:Why would you avoid challenges? It's a fighting game.

Because the disparity between the close combat ability of characters from different codexes means that it will quite often (probably generally) be a fairly one-sided affair.

No, its a movement, shooting and fighting game. Hence the three phases.

Avoiding challenges when your character is poorly equipped to deal with them makes a lot of sense.

I believe you should sub tactics for cowardly.

Never thought I hear a Nid army avoiding Necrons in CC. Never in a thousand years.

I don't think avoiding Challenges is going to be very successful with a 2d6 charge, but we'll see. Also 12 inch charges by jump troops is going to make it hard also.

MJThurston wrote:I believe you should sub tactics for cowardly.

Never thought I hear a Nid army avoiding Necrons in CC. Never in a thousand years.

I don't think avoiding Challenges is going to be very successful with a 2d6 charge, but we'll see. Also 12 inch charges by jump troops is going to make it hard also.

lol, I feel that wrapping my TL Devourer Flyrants with Gargoyles is pretty much a must. They aren't designed for CC. Have you seen MSS, have you played against it in 6th?
I don't consider this tactic cowardly, more about protecting my unit to allow it to do what it does best which is shoot stuff in the face repeatedly.

I'll have 2 units of 15 Gargyoles surrounding 2 Flyrants both with TL devourers, one Flyrant has OA, the other HC.
This gives my Flyrants each 12 shots, rerolling misses then rerolling 1's.
Reroll to wound also due to brain leech worms and then reroll 1's thanks to OA.
Plus the Gargoyles which auto wound non mech on 6's and they will be rerolling 1's also.

To me that sounds like a unit that can deal with most things.
Gargyoles for rear armour (They have AG).
Flyrants can cause a lot of hurt to troops and has enough manuvability to get to rear armour.

Gargoyles also acting as a protection screen for cover saves, also preventing the Flyrants from getting charged or Challenged (until the Gargoyles die of course).

This is about ensuring you get the most out of your shooty Flyrants, not hiding behind a wall of Gargoyles and hoping you don't get challenged for the whole game.

MJThurston wrote:I believe you should sub tactics for cowardly.

Never thought I hear a Nid army avoiding Necrons in CC. Never in a thousand years.

I don't think avoiding Challenges is going to be very successful with a 2d6 charge, but we'll see. Also 12 inch charges by jump troops is going to make it hard also.

Brains win out over claims of cowardice. You do know that MSS is a horrible, horrible power given the existence of challenges, yes?

MJThurston wrote:Never thought I hear a Nid army avoiding Necrons in CC. Never in a thousand years.

When a properly equipped overlord is better in CC than a Hive Tyrant (and cheaper), and can make the Tyrant hit himself - yes, it's smart and not cowardly to avoid the overlord.

kambien wrote:

coredump wrote:

HoverBoy wrote:As long as there's a character in the unit you're fighting he can challenge, with that said if you had another character handy to take the challenge the tyrant will be free to eat the unit. Broodlords are the only unit champs we have so that's really the only option.

Not quite, there has to be a character, and he has to be close enough to the front to be engaged in the fight; in order to issue or accept challenges

Actually no , the character just has to be in the unit . If the challenge is accepted you move the models together and if not possible assume them to be together. pg 64 under Fighting a challenge tells you how to get them there.

Actually yes. Please review the rules before correcting people. If the characters are not engaged, they are not able to issue or accept challenges.

MJThurston wrote:
Never thought I hear a Nid army avoiding Necrons in CC. Never in a thousand years.

Never thought I would see a Necron Codex with the best CC wargear in the game, at least for challenges.

I don't think avoiding Challenges is going to be very successful with a 2d6 charge, but we'll see. Also 12 inch charges by jump troops is going to make it hard also.

All you need to do is keep your character 3" from your front lines...

L0rdF1end wrote:This gives my Flyrants each 12 shots, rerolling misses then rerolling 1's.
Reroll to wound also due to brain leech worms and then reroll 1's thanks to OA.
Plus the Gargoyles which auto wound non mech on 6's and they will be rerolling 1's also.

That is wrong in two ways:
1. Rulebook pg.5 – No dice may be re-rolled more than once.
2. Codex Tyranids pg.81 – devourers of any kind don't re-roll to wound, they do however impose a -1LD on panic tests if they cause at least one wound.

HoverBoy wrote:2. Codex Tyranids pg.81 – devourers of any kind don't re-roll to wound, they do however impose a -1LD on panic tests if they cause at least one wound.

Tyrants get TL Devourers.

edit: I misread - you're right they don't re-roll to wound, but OA will allow re-rolls to wound on a 1.

coredump wrote:

kambien wrote:

coredump wrote:

HoverBoy wrote:As long as there's a character in the unit you're fighting he can challenge, with that said if you had another character handy to take the challenge the tyrant will be free to eat the unit. Broodlords are the only unit champs we have so that's really the only option.

Not quite, there has to be a character, and he has to be close enough to the front to be engaged in the fight; in order to issue or accept challenges

Actually no , the character just has to be in the unit . If the challenge is accepted you move the models together and if not possible assume them to be together. pg 64 under Fighting a challenge tells you how to get them there.

Actually yes. Please review the rules before correcting people. If the characters are not engaged, they are not able to issue or accept challenges.

I'm good on the rules thanks
(highlighted the inccorect part )

...which still dont reroll to wound, just to-hit.

nosferatu1001 wrote:...which still dont reroll to wound, just to-hit.

My mistake. I kant reed gud.

Coredump - Kambien is correct on this. The rules on chalenges requires the character to be in a unit *locked* in combat, and you are *locked* in combat on a unit basis if a model in the unit is in base to base a tthe start of the fight subphase.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Coredump - Kambien is correct on this. The rules on chalenges requires the character to be in a unit *locked* in combat, and you are *locked* in combat on a unit basis if a model in the unit is in base to base a tthe start of the fight subphase.

Try reading the whole section next time.

"To issue a challenge, nominate a character in one of your units locked in the combat to be the challenger."

5 sentences later...

"Characters that cannot fight or strike blows (including those that are not engaged with an enemy model) cannot issue challenges."

3 more sentences later...

"Characters that cannot fight or strike blows (including those that are not engaged with an enemy model) cannot accept challenges."

Fair enough, nice of them to bold only one condition.... apologies coredump!

Guys,

Thanks for the corrections to what I thought TL devourers with BrainLeeched worms do plus OA.

So I reroll to hit due to TL.
I then only reroll 1's to wound due to OA.

Sorry, I really should pay more attention to the codex

nosferatu1001 wrote:Fair enough, nice of them to bold only one condition.... apologies coredump!

Man.... I wanted to gloat, but now I have to be all noble and stuff...

Dont! Gloat away! You were correct, i didnt read all of the rlevant rules, and corrected a correct correction incorrectly