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Hi everyone!

I'm new to FoW (but not to wargaming) and I thought that I'd start with a german mech force.

I've been using easyarmy.com to check out some lists and found the Gepanzerte Aufklärungsschwadron-list which really interested me, as it seemed to be able to fit nearly everything I wanted in the same list. Is this a good list for a new player or should I look in another direction? If so, which one?

Also, that list seems special as it uses the 250 instead of the 251, but I can't find any difference between these, are there separate models, or do I use the same model for both types?

/Regards
Johan

They are separate models with slight differences. The I would buy the 251s because they seem to be more common. (I also think they look cooler). But with that said, the models are so similar in shape, size, and stats that I often proxy 251s for 250s for the most part, when I play causal games. It's up to you. Put if you chose to proxy be sure that its ok at where ever you play. As for the list itself, german mech lists are good for starts, as they are pretty good stats wise, you get a mixture of Infantry and vehicles, and it doesn't require as many models as some other lists.

250 "bump back"


251 "flat back"


With that said. Big P will probably know more about the differences between the two.

The 250 is quite a bit shorter than the 251, and it's definitely noticeable. The tracks also have fewer road wheels, due to the shortness. Which Aufklärungsschwadron list are you using? Because I know that a lot of them used 250s, but I was thinking that some Aufklärung units had 251s as well.

There are actually two version of 250 (the Alte and the Neu) and two variants of the 251 (C & D).

The 250 Alte and the 251 C are for the early/mid war while the 250 Neu and the 251 D are for the late war period.

The 250 were issued to recce formations, while the 251 generally served in the grenadier regiments.

250 Alte

http://www.wehrmacht-history.com/images/heer/sd.kfz.250/sd.kfz.250-2-alte-1.jpg

250 Neu

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7197/6933287171_78553a0366_z.jpg


251 C

http://wio.ru/tank/capt/sdkfz251c.jpg

251 D

http://www.pietvanhees.nl/251/period/251d6_br_whitewash-russia.jpg

Thanks for the very good responses everyone!

I've looked at the Aufklärungsabteilung PDF. What I mostly liked was the ability to field so many vehicles (one for every MG team in the platoons), do you guys know any lists that let you do this with the 251?

Also, I'm not at all dead set on this list, I just need a late war german list with good allround capabilities, so if you have any preferences, please let me know.

On the subject of the 250s, do you know any manufacturers that make these for a good price? I'd like bundles, as I'm a student and have quite a tight budget.

Hordini wrote:The 250 is quite a bit shorter than the 251, and it's definitely noticeable. The tracks also have fewer road wheels, due to the shortness. Which Aufklärungsschwadron list are you using? Because I know that a lot of them used 250s, but I was thinking that some Aufklärung units had 251s as well.

You are correct. I was thinking of the 251c vs. the 251D. Go with what Big P and Hordini say.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Glapojke wrote:Thanks for the very good responses everyone!

I've looked at the Aufklärungsabteilung PDF. What I mostly liked was the ability to field so many vehicles (one for every MG team in the platoons), do you guys know any lists that let you do this with the 251?

Also, I'm not at all dead set on this list, I just need a late war german list with good allround capabilities, so if you have any preferences, please let me know.

On the subject of the 250s, do you know any manufacturers that make these for a good price? I'd like bundles, as I'm a student and have quite a tight budget.

.

There are many mech lists that let you take 251s. As for manufactures go with plastic soldier company, as they tend to make good cheap models. (With that said it might be best to buy from a 3rd party store, be sure to look around when you buy). There are many lists that fit your criteria (Mech, MG lists). It just depends on what you want your morale (Fearless, Confident, Reluctant) and troop quality (Veteran, Trained, Conscript) level to be, what special rules you want you unit to have, or what other platoons you want to take. Some to check out

Just keep in mind that lists with the same name, might have different choices/rules depending on their source book. They might also be different units for example a SS-Panzergrenadierkampfgruppe (Wiking) is different then a SS-Panzergrenadierkampfgruppe (Totenkopf).

* Panzergrenadier Lehr Kompanie

* SS-Panzergrenadierkampfgruppe

* Gepanzerte SS-Panzergrenadier

* Gepanzerte Panzergrenadierkompanie (There are several different versions of this list out there)

To name a few.

Im sorry if my question was a bit confused, but I know that a lot of lists run 251s With inf, but I was looking for a list where you could (as you can With 250s) run as mny halftracks as mg-teams in a platoon.

I understand if this is hoping for a bittoo much, so if that's not possible, cv or fv lists With strong options (as for example, lehr-lists) work just fine too.

Ps: does psc make 250s? I can Only find 251s on their site.

Glapojke wrote:Im sorry if my question was a bit confused, but I know that a lot of lists run 251s With inf, but I was looking for a list where you could (as you can With 250s) run as mny halftracks as mg-teams in a platoon.

I understand if this is hoping for a bittoo much, so if that's not possible, cv or fv lists With strong options (as for example, lehr-lists) work just fine too.

Ps: does psc make 250s? I can Only find 251s on their site.

They so far only make 251s. I thought that was what you were looking for. I am still a little confused by your question. Are you asking for lists where is an equal number of infantry teams to half track teams? If so then I should warn you that there are none. They all have 2 infantry teams to a a half track.

Makarov wrote: Are you asking for lists where is an equal number of infantry teams to half track teams? If so then I should warn you that there are none. They all have 2 infantry teams to a a half track.

Just to clarify, armored Panzergrenadier lists are normally two teams to a half-track, but the Aufklärung lists feature one infantry team to a half-track, so you'll have seven infantry teams and seven half-tracks in a full-strength Aufklärung platoon.

Hordini wrote:

Makarov wrote: Are you asking for lists where is an equal number of infantry teams to half track teams? If so then I should warn you that there are none. They all have 2 infantry teams to a a half track.

Just to clarify, armored Panzergrenadier lists are normally two teams to a half-track, but the Aufklärung lists feature one infantry team to a half-track, so you'll have seven infantry teams and seven half-tracks in a full-strength Aufklärung platoon.

I didn't know that. You know what, ignore every thing I say. Just listen to this guy ^.

The Aufk platoon in BG&G can have 7 SdKfz251s.

You can take 2 in a Panzer Ko, they are R/T Panzerfaust/MG teams though.


In Devils Charge SS-PanzerPios can get one 251/7 per team. Two platoons can be taken by KGP, but they only have 5 teams per platoon.

I've now found the site www.warweb.com that seems to offer the old glory range for an astonishing price, are these models to be recomended?

Be aware that warweb can take several weeks to ship your order. I have OG 250s and 251s, infantry, and tanks and they are perfectly serviceable. Which models were you interested in?

Pretty much those

I'm looking for 251s neu, 251s with the 3,7, pumas, panthers and panzerwefers when it comes to armour.

For infantry, I mostly need mg-teams.

I can't find any real desrcritions about what you get in each package, do the tanks come in boundles of three or just one, and how many infantrymen are in each package?

Thanks for the help

Typically, you get 3 tanks or vehicles per package, and 50 infantry per package. Kubels come in packs of 6.

nobleknight does a good job of posting pictures of what figures you get:

http://www.nobleknight.com/ViewProducts.asp_Q_ProductLineID_E_2137425716_A_ManufacturerID_E_503971237_A_CategoryID_E_17_A_GenreID_E_


Forex, you might get a bag of 50 infantry and the light machineguns bag to mix up as MG teams. (100guys, 20-25 bases)

A package of command, HMGs, and mortars for support weapons, you won't have any pzfsts though.

They have a pack of 50 guys w panzerfausts but that might be a little too much.

Also big guns don't come with crew, you if you get artillery you'd need to get a bag of artillery crew, and the same w ATGs.

if you order 1 each of:
OG German Rifleman; (50 dudes)
OG German Light MachineGuns;

and PSC Heavy Weapons package
4 tripod MG42 teams firing
4 x 82mm mortar teams
4 x 120mm mortar teams
4 firing panzershrecks
4 moving panzershrecks
4 moving panzerfausts
4 firing panzerfausts

Yuo should be able to make up 3 platoons and support weapons.


You may want to check out nobleknight, they seem to have a better stock level then warweb, but don't have the deep discounts either (20% off)
http://www.nobleknight.com/ViewManuf.asp_Q_CategoryID_E_17#O

Hobbybunker has a better PSC selection the NK, but doesn't have OG
http://www.hobbybunker.com/products/the-plastic-soldier-company/mfg/1424

Feel free to PM once you get a shopping list together and I'll let you know if there's anything drastically wrong.


(Edited to change some recommendations)

Thanks for the excellent help AndrasOtto!

With nobleknights prices, am I not on the same pricerange as for example PSCs site? I feel a bit lost here, where can I get the best prices when still retaining some form of customer service?

All Gepanzerte Panzerpioneers can field one 251/7 per MG team - which means bloody lot of 251/7s! Good to know that PSC is planning to release their pioneer-conversion kit anytime soon...

Nice! What does 251/7 mean? Is that the ones with the assault bridge?

I sent a long PM to you Galpojke, and edited my post above.

251/7s are the Pioneer halftracks w bridges